[FranksRed1]

Hi All-
I have a 2020 R1 that is basically bone stock. I’ve had it for almost 6 months/ put 6k miles on it and four track days( two more coming this month).
On the street, I have never had any issues with the brakes and feel they work fine. On the track, however, that’s a different story. I am new to track riding (going for bump from novice to intermediate this month) so I’m not an animal on the front brakes. That being said, I have experienced poor feel, loss of brake power, and brake fade to the point of slowing earlier than I should at corner entry. NO LIKEY!!
I am considering losing the ABS system to improve the situation. Can anyone give some opinions/experiences/ warnings on this??
Thanks!!

 

[iamzombie]

This has been a common observation on Yamaha R1 (and MT/FZ-10), some people don't have any issues with the brake feel, but many others say putting more aggressive pads on really helps a lot.

A friend of mine with a 2017 FZ10 put some EBC HH pads on and said it improved his braking feel significantly.

 

[FranksRed1]

Iamzombie-
Thanks for the info. I actually have a ‘17 FZ10 in addition to the R1. I used the EBC HH as replacement pads and they do improve feel with initial bite but don’t help the brake fade.
The ‘20 R1 initial bite feels ok to me; it’s the lack of feel during modulation that is tough for me.
On another note...what happened to your R1(why do you miss it?)
Thanks!

 

[DarkHorse]

I’d try new pads and a different fluid.

 

[Gearheaded]

Got any videos? If you’re getting fade at your pace, it’s prob your braking style and not the bike. I’ve got pretty quick on bike stock brakes on my ‘15 for an entire weekend and never experience fade. Yes did get some abs pump intrusion, but you can tell the difference between that and fade.

 

[FranksRed1]

No videos yet. I will try to get a camera going for my weekend at Jennings this month.
I tend to agree that I’m not braking properly...just another thing I need to work on😑

 

[Gearheaded]

No videos yet. I will try to get a camera going for my weekend at Jennings this month.
I tend to agree that I’m not braking properly...just another thing I need to work on😑

Jennings is good; I’ve done low ‘20’s all weekend there on stock brakes before switching brake pads, lines, fluids, master cyl, and taking out the ABS

 

[FranksRed1]

That’s great to hear; I should have no fade issues at my pace. When is the last time you have been to Jennings? How is the track surface-rough/smooth?

 

[Gearheaded]

That’s great to hear; I should have no fade issues at my pace. When is the last time you have been to Jennings? How is the track surface-rough/smooth?

She’s tough on tires, I was there to n may for a 3 day weekend.

 

[dog78]

Hi Frank, can go out with an instructor it would help you lot. Over here in the UK some trackdays events have them for free.
I was hoping to book a private rider coach between two of us next year Europe . My problem is not a lack of experience,
it is for modern machinery, tyres and the electronics but not for track experience. Also I had 30 years off track and without a bike.
I like Gearheaded think to get fade is unlikely. But if you are going on track more often and it is something you like doing, I would definitely put some good sintered pads in change the fluid, and disable the abs, i believe it or you can do it by removing the fuse, it will just have the abs light on in the dash. I would check that one here first. You can get blanking kits for the pump and lines, I think Hel do a kit for it.
But if you are using it on street and you can take the fuse in and out, it would be a better option.
I had a go at provoking my abs on street but I couldn't, admittedly it was a short ride.
But the abs is too intrusive for track IMO, and i was thinking if you could take be mistaking that for fade.
Pads and new fluid first I'd try first, if you still got the problem abs next.
I wouldn't call the Abs confidence inspiring, like some on the Italian bikes where they have race abs and you can turn it off completely.
Good luck 👍

 

[FranksRed1]

Dog78-
I appreciate the advice in your response. I suppose in the end result,whether what I’ve experienced with my brakes on track is fade or ABS intervention, I get off the gas earlier approaching a corner. I understand that removing the ABS fuse on ‘15+ R1’s disables the other rider aides. Considering the great comments you guys are posting to my questions, I have a plan to focus on my braking for my track weekend at the end of the month. From what I’ve seen on YouTube at Jennings they have really great markers along the track. I plan to bug the control riders as much as I can for help. Just hearing from you guys with lots more track time is super helpful for me. Thanks!!

 

[Gearheaded]

Dog78-
I appreciate the advice in your response. I suppose in the end result,whether what I’ve experienced with my brakes on track is fade or ABS intervention, I get off the gas earlier approaching a corner. I understand that removing the ABS fuse on ‘15+ R1’s disables the other rider aides. Considering the great comments you guys are posting to my questions, I have a plan to focus on my braking for my track weekend at the end of the month. From what I’ve seen on YouTube at Jennings they have really great markers along the track. I plan to bug the control riders as much as I can for help. Just hearing from you guys with lots more track time is super helpful for me. Thanks!!

When are you going? Jennings is my home track, I’m usually there a lot, if you’re there when I’m there I’d gladly round the track with you and see what’s going on. Don’t get me wrong, I’m no pro, just an amateur racer, but I’ve probably lapped Jennings a few thousand times.
Pulling the ABS fuse shouldn’t take out other rider aides, a quick check would be pull the fuse and go out around the town, and try the quick shifter. If you still have QS, and your other lights on the dash are still green, you should still have TC, LC, and SC. The other option is an ABS delete and just leave the pump in place. That requires lines though.
At any rate, when ya going? Also where do you live? I’m in CFL, and I know of a private track day coming in March that would be a great time if you’re interested. LMK

 

[1202067]

Got any videos? If you’re getting fade at your pace, it’s prob your braking style and not the bike. I’ve got pretty quick on bike stock brakes on my ‘15 for an entire weekend and never experience fade. Yes did get some abs pump intrusion, but you can tell the difference between that and fade.

Turn off the abs. You can stop faster if you wear your big boy pants anyway.

 

[FranksRed1]

When are you going? Jennings is my home track, I’m usually there a lot, if you’re there when I’m there I’d gladly round the track with you and see what’s going on. Don’t get me wrong, I’m no pro, just an amateur racer, but I’ve probably lapped Jennings a few thousand times.
Pulling the ABS fuse shouldn’t take out other rider aides, a quick check would be pull the fuse and go out around the town, and try the quick shifter. If you still have QS, and your other lights on the dash are still green, you should still have TC, LC, and SC. The other option is an ABS delete and just leave the pump in place. That requires lines though.
At any rate, when ya going? Also where do you live? I’m in CFL, and I know of a private track day coming in March that would be a great time if you’re interested. LMK

Gear headed-
I will be at Jennings 1/30 and 1/31. I live near Pensacola, Fl; about 4 hrs east of Jennings. I am VERY interested in a private track day and also welcome any help at the track.
I am going to check out what happens when I remove the ABS fuse.
Thanks!!

 

[FranksRed1]

Turn off the abs. You can stop faster if you wear your big boy pants anyway.

Working on it with big boy pants....at 54 recovery time from ****-ups takes a lot longer than it used to. I’m trying to work this out progressively, but your point is well taken!

 

[1202067]

Working on it with big boy pants....at 54 recovery time from ****-ups takes a lot longer than it used to. I’m trying to work this out progressively, but your point is well taken!

Hey bud, that was directed at gear. You're good. Ride your own ride and take things at your own pace.

It will be good to hit the track with gear. He has a wealth of knowledge to share with you when you get to the track.

ABS is a great learning tool and it can keep you from having a yard sale with the machine.

I wish you the best of luck and look forward to seeing you grow via the forum here.

 

[dog78]

Frank that was a great offer from Gearheaded and I am glad you are going to take it up, you will get loads out of it.
Racers and trackday riders, there's a difference, you can't beat race craft. Very generous of Gearheaded, you will leave the track much happier after a bit of guidance and help.
No big boy pants needed, me and my mate are 62 and 61, and both raced two strokes in our younger days.
We both have R1 Superstocks or did have couple of years ago, he has a brand new Aprilia now.
Big boy pants might be needed if you pull a big handful of these pfm brakes🤣.
All you got to do is enjoy yourself, build your pace up slowly feeling comfortable at the same time.
I was 59 when that picture was taken , 33 years off track. Second ever trackday, my first ride on the R1.
The biggest thing to remember is to enjoy yourself and be safe.
Have a great time 👍

 

[2muchbluE]

Jennings is good; I’ve done low 15:20’s all weekend there on stock brakes before switching brake pads, lines, fluids, master cyl, and taking out the ABS

@[email protected]@alltimes


Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

 

[FranksRed1]

Frank that was a great offer from Gearheaded and I am glad you are going to take it up, you will get loads out of it.
Racers and trackday riders, there's a difference, you can't beat race craft. Very generous of Gearheaded, you will leave the track much happier after a bit of guidance and help.
No big boy pants needed, me and my mate are 62 and 61, and both raced two strokes in our younger days.
We both have R1 Superstocks or did have couple of years ago, he has a brand new Aprilia now.
Big boy pants might be needed if you pull a big handful of these pfm brakes🤣.
All you got to do is enjoy yourself, build your pace up slowly feeling comfortable at the same time.
I was 59 when that picture was taken , 33 years off track. Second ever trackday, my first ride on the R1.
The biggest thing to remember is to enjoy yourself and be safe.
Have a great time 👍

Frank that was a great offer from Gearheaded and I am glad you are going to take it up, you will get loads out of it.
Racers and trackday riders, there's a difference, you can't beat race craft. Very generous of Gearheaded, you will leave the track much happier after a bit of guidance and help.
No big boy pants needed, me and my mate are 62 and 61, and both raced two strokes in our younger days.
We both have R1 Superstocks or did have couple of years ago, he has a brand new Aprilia now.
Big boy pants might be needed if you pull a big handful of these pfm brakes🤣.
All you got to do is enjoy yourself, build your pace up slowly feeling comfortable at the same time.
I was 59 when that picture was taken , 33 years off track. Second ever trackday, my first ride on the R1.
The biggest thing to remember is to enjoy yourself and be safe.
Have a great time 👍

Dog78-
Thanks for the post; this is very helpful info👍
That’s a cool front end... can I ask how many $$$ I’m looking at in those pics for the front end?
Nice riding shot, too. I really appreciate the help-this sort of support from track riders and racers is priceless!

 

[smergy]

Fade at that pace is surprising, but of course possible. A few suggestions (depending on your level of $$ and comfort), this is coming from a 15+ R1 w/ 10+ years of track at the pointy end of amateur pace.

1.) Consider letting a more experienced rider you trust take it for a few laps. This is the fastest way to pinpoint the issues, experience is better than guessing. Even just rolling around in the pits a more experienced rider can quickly spot issues.
2.) IMO the stock calipers themselves are actually quite good, esp. for at this pace. I wouldn't bother spending the money upgrading them.
3.) I am not a fan of ABS on the track, for me it's a single HEL SS line with a T from a Galespeed m/c to the front calipers. The feel is really good. Bite isn't as strong as say an HP4, but I can't say I've ever felt heavier brakes are required. Not crazy bite, a nice amount, but good feel.
4.) EBC HH are ok, but or track use, Ferodo XRAC, Vesrah, SBS, etc. type pads are more $$ but work better IMO
5.) Motul RBF 660 fluid. This would be where I start, super cheap fix (relative to the other options), I would not stray from this, and never use DOT 5.1 fluid.
6.) How soft is the suspension? You may just need a little firmer setup for the track.
7.) The ABS module is required (or things do get disabled), but you only need the electronics portion. You can actually cut the 4 bolts on the module, replace it with a plastic (not metal!) plate from any random plastic container to save the weight. I think the ABS eliminator is too expensive for what it is, this fix is free. Of course your ABS light will be on, but personally I don't care.