Yamaha R1 Forum: YZF-R1 Forums banner

21 - 40 of 73 Posts

·
I miss my R1
Joined
·
3,466 Posts
Fade at that pace is surprising, but of course possible. A few suggestions (depending on your level of $$ and comfort), this is coming from a 15+ R1 w/ 10+ years of track at the pointy end of amateur pace.

1.) Consider letting a more experienced rider you trust take it for a few laps. This is the fastest way to pinpoint the issues, experience is better than guessing. Even just rolling around in the pits a more experienced rider can quickly spot issues.
2.) IMO the stock calipers themselves are actually quite good, esp. for at this pace. I wouldn't bother spending the money upgrading them.
3.) I am not a fan of ABS on the track, for me it's a single HEL SS line with a T from a Galespeed m/c to the front calipers. The feel is really good. Bite isn't as strong as say an HP4, but I can't say I've ever felt heavier brakes are required. Not crazy bite, a nice amount, but good feel.
4.) EBC HH are ok, but or track use, Ferodo XRAC, Vesrah, SBS, etc. type pads are more $$ but work better IMO
5.) Motul RBF 660 fluid. This would be where I start, super cheap fix (relative to the other options), I would not stray from this, and never use DOT 5.1 fluid.
6.) How soft is the suspension? You may just need a little firmer setup for the track.
7.) The ABS module is required (or things do get disabled), but you only need the electronics portion. You can actually cut the 4 bolts on the module, replace it with a plastic (not metal!) plate from any random plastic container to save the weight. I think the ABS eliminator is too expensive for what it is, this fix is free. Of course your ABS light will be on, but personally I don't care.

To point 5, why would you say never use DOT 5.1? Its got a higher boiling point, so where's the downside?
 

·
64 degrees?? Pfff. I can do 90
Joined
·
112 Posts

To point 5, why would you say never use DOT 5.1? Its got a higher boiling point, so where's the downside?
Correct, this is also why RBF660 is preferred over RBF600. You would think DOT5.1 it's better, but the feel is significantly more spongey due to a completely different composition. Of course, this is simply an opinion, but DOT 4 seems to be the product of choice for racers around here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
186 Posts
Dog78-
Thanks for the post; this is very helpful info
That’s a cool front end... can I ask how many $$$ I’m looking at in those pics for the front end?
Nice riding shot, too. I really appreciate the help-this sort of support from track riders and racers is priceless!
Hi Frank, you are most welcome. We all started somewhere, and when I started racing in 77, you was given an orange bib and thrown amongst it.
Saying that you were safer I would say then some trackdays, especially when they are not timed, and hence i only go to Europe now, 40 to a group and timed in the morning and the groups swapped around in the afternoon .
UK trackdays 60 in each of the three groups, no timing, plus weather and noise restrictions.
The two front ends, the Pfm was my friends with a super lite Nova gearbox and the other with the HPKs is mine.
I wouldn't like to advise anyone to take out the Abs on a street bike, any panic braking could get you in trouble on street, so go the fuse way for the track . But with experience it's a personal choice, and I don't take it on the street much, it is a bit harsh on suspension. But the brakes have a lot of feel but no one Abs
If you change your pads, don't use carbon ones, alright in the dry and on track, but you will never keep the heat into them on street . Use sintered ones, I am going to use SBS race sintered and they are OK on street too.
The oem calipers are good calipers. I am sure Gearheaded will steer you in the right direction.
As you get faster and want to upgrade parts, just keep an eye out for them, buying all my front end is secondhand and most people take the parts of and sell it with oem parts.
We all make mistakes, first day in Spain I ended up behind the pro rider which four of us paid for, and even at my age I got a bit to exited and took to the gravel.
Get the suspension setup for your weight too, it don't cost that much, just to have valved and sprung and the geometry setup will give you more confidence.
You are never too old .
A 3 day event and alike is good because you get to build on the previous day.
We supposed to be going for 5 day one, but I think it will be cancelled due to travel restrictions and safety.
Some instructors can be harsh but they are there to make you safe and get the best out your ability and build confidence. They are not there to give compliments.
Instruction is a great investment, you can share, like two of you, but they can teach from novice to some top riders.
Remember there's no pressure on you, just learn at your own pace.
Even having great aftermarket parts are only as good as they are setup.
Get out there and enjoy yourself .
In question to the cost of the front ends, it is hard to say, to buy new, I wouldn't entertain it. Also it has to have a rear shock to go with the Ohlins forks. The other one had fork internals but the Pfm brakes and kit loom and ecu. Tbh you would be better buying one that has been done, I see something similar to mine less than two thirds of what mine cost to build maybe nearly half.
You will learn all this as you progress. And you can't compare them bike with stock, they are so different to ride. My power maps are all full power, electronics have been adjusted too, TC can go 40% below tc1.
Go and enjoy your trackday with Gearheaded, and if you ever want something quicker, there's plenty of help on hrere

Sent from my G8341 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
58 Posts
Discussion Starter #24
Fade at that pace is surprising, but of course possible. A few suggestions (depending on your level of $$ and comfort), this is coming from a 15+ R1 w/ 10+ years of track at the pointy end of amateur pace.

1.) Consider letting a more experienced rider you trust take it for a few laps. This is the fastest way to pinpoint the issues, experience is better than guessing. Even just rolling around in the pits a more experienced rider can quickly spot issues.
2.) IMO the stock calipers themselves are actually quite good, esp. for at this pace. I wouldn't bother spending the money upgrading them.
3.) I am not a fan of ABS on the track, for me it's a single HEL SS line with a T from a Galespeed m/c to the front calipers. The feel is really good. Bite isn't as strong as say an HP4, but I can't say I've ever felt heavier brakes are required. Not crazy bite, a nice amount, but good feel.
4.) EBC HH are ok, but or track use, Ferodo XRAC, Vesrah, SBS, etc. type pads are more $$ but work better IMO
5.) Motul RBF 660 fluid. This would be where I start, super cheap fix (relative to the other options), I would not stray from this, and never use DOT 5.1 fluid.
6.) How soft is the suspension? You may just need a little firmer setup for the track.
7.) The ABS module is required (or things do get disabled), but you only need the electronics portion. You can actually cut the 4 bolts on the module, replace it with a plastic (not metal!) plate from any random plastic container to save the weight. I think the ABS eliminator is too expensive for what it is, this fix is free. Of course your ABS light will be on, but personally I don't care.
Smergy-
Great point on letting a more experienced rider check out my bike. I also appreciate what you said in point two-I am not into spending money for upgrades I wouldn’t be able to take advantage of. If I get to the level of being faster than the stock brakes, I would prefer to keep the calipers while upgrading the rest of the system. I had the suspension guy working a STT track weekend at Barber set the suspension in September. I plan to reach out at Jennings for another adjustment-seems like no matter how gently I try to release when trailing off in a corner it jumps up a little livelier than I am comfortable with. You also addressed some questions I’ve been pondering about ABS, so a big Thank You!
 

·
Venom X/O
Joined
·
24,688 Posts
Smergy-
Great point on letting a more experienced rider check out my bike. I also appreciate what you said in point two-I am not into spending money for upgrades I wouldn’t be able to take advantage of. If I get to the level of being faster than the stock brakes, I would prefer to keep the calipers while upgrading the rest of the system. I had the suspension guy working a STT track weekend at Barber set the suspension in September. I plan to reach out at Jennings for another adjustment-seems like no matter how gently I try to release when trailing off in a corner it jumps up a little livelier than I am comfortable with. You also addressed some questions I’ve been pondering about ABS, so a big Thank You!
The track day I’m talking about is at Jennings in March. I won’t make a trip at the end of this month as I have a trip planned already, but if you’re interested let me know. It’ll be around mid-late March.
 

·
64 degrees?? Pfff. I can do 90
Joined
·
112 Posts
How much do you weight and are you on stock suspension spring rates? Keep in mind it's possible it's not the brakes and just need a bit firmer suspension setup. As a test you can always firm it up a couple clicks and see if it gets better, worse, or the same.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
58 Posts
Discussion Starter #27
Hi Frank, you are most welcome. We all started somewhere, and when I started racing in 77, you was given an orange bib and thrown amongst it.
Saying that you were safer I would say then some trackdays, especially when they are not timed, and hence i only go to Europe now, 40 to a group and timed in the morning and the groups swapped around in the afternoon .
UK trackdays 60 in each of the three groups, no timing, plus weather and noise restrictions.
The two front ends, the Pfm was my friends with a super lite Nova gearbox and the other with the HPKs is mine.
I wouldn't like to advise anyone to take out the Abs on a street bike, any panic braking could get you in trouble on street, so go the fuse way for the track . But with experience it's a personal choice, and I don't take it on the street much, it is a bit harsh on suspension. But the brakes have a lot of feel but no one Abs
If you change your pads, don't use carbon ones, alright in the dry and on track, but you will never keep the heat into them on street . Use sintered ones, I am going to use SBS race sintered and they are OK on street too.
The oem calipers are good calipers. I am sure Gearheaded will steer you in the right direction.
As you get faster and want to upgrade parts, just keep an eye out for them, buying all my front end is secondhand and most people take the parts of and sell it with oem parts.
We all make mistakes, first day in Spain I ended up behind the pro rider which four of us paid for, and even at my age I got a bit to exited and took to the gravel.
Get the suspension setup for your weight too, it don't cost that much, just to have valved and sprung and the geometry setup will give you more confidence.
You are never too old .
A 3 day event and alike is good because you get to build on the previous day.
We supposed to be going for 5 day one, but I think it will be cancelled due to travel restrictions and safety.
Some instructors can be harsh but they are there to make you safe and get the best out your ability and build confidence. They are not there to give compliments.
Instruction is a great investment, you can share, like two of you, but they can teach from novice to some top riders.
Remember there's no pressure on you, just learn at your own pace.
Even having great aftermarket parts are only as good as they are setup.
Get out there and enjoy yourself .
In question to the cost of the front ends, it is hard to say, to buy new, I wouldn't entertain it. Also it has to have a rear shock to go with the Ohlins forks. The other one had fork internals but the Pfm brakes and kit loom and ecu. Tbh you would be better buying one that has been done, I see something similar to mine less than two thirds of what mine cost to build maybe nearly half.
You will learn all this as you progress. And you can't compare them bike with stock, they are so different to ride. My power maps are all full power, electronics have been adjusted too, TC can go 40% below tc1.
Go and enjoy your trackday with Gearheaded, and if you ever want something quicker, there's plenty of help on hrere

Sent from my G8341 using Tapatalk
Dog78-
I hear you about multiple track days in a row-the benefits are huge. I have weekends planned this season at Carolina Motorsports Park (South Carolina) and National Corvette Museum (Kentucky), which are both going to be a big thrill for me. Again-you’ve got a sweet bike and I really appreciate you taking the time to give me some advice! Ride on!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
58 Posts
Discussion Starter #28
The track day I’m talking about is at Jennings in March. I won’t make a trip at the end of this month as I have a trip planned already, but if you’re interested let me know. It’ll be around mid-late March.
I can get to Jennings mid /late March. Please let me know when you book a date. Thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
58 Posts
Discussion Starter #30
How much do you weight and are you on stock suspension spring rates? Keep in mind it's possible it's not the brakes and just need a bit firmer suspension setup. As a test you can always firm it up a couple clicks and see if it gets better, worse, or the same.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk
I’m right at 200 lbs on stock 2020 forks/springs. I think I will ride it as-is for the first half of the day and then make 2-click adjustments. I hope I’ll be able to feel the difference.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
186 Posts
Dog78-
I hear you about multiple track days in a row-the benefits are huge. I have weekends planned this season at Carolina Motorsports Park (South Carolina) and National Corvette Museum (Kentucky), which are both going to be a big thrill for me. Again-you’ve got a sweet bike and I really appreciate you taking the time to give me some advice! Ride on!
Thank you Frank, you have got some great advice of the members on here, and great offer of help.
My bike was a present to myself for my 60th, and something I couldn't afford when I was younger, and love building race bikes I loved and worked on mainly two strokes , big 500 Xr45 which I got a chance to ride when the rider was injured on an airfield just to plug chop it, it was raw, brutal and dare I say it felt quicker than my R1.
Lowes on a press launch for road R1M out at Portimao and was a few seconds of the WSB time. The journalists were saying that the Abs was to intrusive, the were on the same bike with slicks on them. So just proves how a pro rider can cope with it, not just that but had much faster corner entry, probably using the slipper to back it in .
Have great time, you are going to enjoy yourself and give us all an update how you get on. Live to ride another day, pain ain't much fun at an older age. I even have a airbag suit now as my right side is already smashed up from my younger years.
That's a great idea is well, that if you let Gearheaded have a little go, it would make things more transparent to what is going on. Everyone is here to help, and and you are going to love your future trackdays.
All the best

Sent from my G8341 using Tapatalk
 

·
Venom X/O
Joined
·
24,688 Posts
Thank you Frank, you have got some great advice of the members on here, and great offer of help.
My bike was a present to myself for my 60th, and something I couldn't afford when I was younger, and love building race bikes I loved and worked on mainly two strokes , big 500 Xr45 which I got a chance to ride when the rider was injured on an airfield just to plug chop it, it was raw, brutal and dare I say it felt quicker than my R1.
Lowes on a press launch for road R1M out at Portimao and was a few seconds of the WSB time. The journalists were saying that the Abs was to intrusive, the were on the same bike with slicks on them. So just proves how a pro rider can cope with it, not just that but had much faster corner entry, probably using the slipper to back it in .
Have great time, you are going to enjoy yourself and give us all an update how you get on. Live to ride another day, pain ain't much fun at an older age. I even have a airbag suit now as my right side is already smashed up from my younger years.
That's a great idea is well, that if you let Gearheaded have a little go, it would make things more transparent to what is going on. Everyone is here to help, and and you are going to love your future trackdays.
All the best

Sent from my G8341 using Tapatalk
I’d even let him ride mine around with proper brakes and suspension, really give him the “bug” 😂
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
186 Posts
I’d even let him ride mine around with proper brakes and suspension, really give him the “bug”
Hi Gearheaded, that's very generous and kind, well it might empty his pockets, that bug is expensive , and addictive. I can genuinely say comparing my bike to the oem I bought, they are so different. Mine grown taller too, I used to put my feet on the ground, not no more, the Ohlins and setup, now I can get the balls of feet . But you don't need to do that much to them to make them more compliant on track.
I think soon as you ride Frank's bike you will instantly know what is going on.
Mine is 2015 and the abs when my friend got cut up the Abs didn't like the back wheel lifting and he made it but that was more experience than anything else and commitment.
Unless you are in the novice group, abs does not really belong on track.
Hey you two have a great day, and I am looking forward to the update and also what you make of the later bike

Sent from my G8341 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
58 Posts
Discussion Starter #34
Yes, this is a pricey bug to be bitten by. I have a 2017 Fz10 that I've listed for sale to buy more track time and tires. This is why I am reluctant to make my R1 track-only; I ride most every day and don't want to stop. I live in NW Florida, and tracks are not just around the corner (closest is NOLA, 3.5 hrs drive) and track days certainly aren't available every weekend. While it's not any sort of comfy-cruiser, I will hop on the R1 and ride 3-4 hours no problem. I have never had any complaints with the brakes on the street, in fact they kick the sh$t out of my Fz10 brakes for feel and power. Having said that, I am reluctant to remove the ABS. I like what Smergy posted about using a "T" from the pump -I wonder if I could remove the fuse for the track and re-install for road riding?
Anyway, I wanted to post this picture to show you guys how much work I have ahead of me. I just want to gain the confidence and awareness to progressively improve. I've been riding bikes since 13 yrs old and will never stop until I can't swing a leg over; I am determined to grow on the track because I'm already addicted!
1016940
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
58 Posts
Discussion Starter #36
Where are sign ups ? I checked Jennings site and Motorsports.Reg and Tack Day Winner but didn’t see it
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
186 Posts
With 20 riders on track, I would be happy with the gators .
I surprised they don't have traffic lights in the UK with 60 on track, hence I go to Europe.

Sent from my G8341 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
This has been a common observation on Yamaha R1 (and MT/FZ-10), some people don't have any issues with the brake feel, but many others say putting more aggressive pads on really helps a lot.

A friend of mine with a 2017 FZ10 put some EBC HH pads on and said it improved his braking feel significantly.
Definitely the EBC HH were the goto pads to get bit more bite once the rotors get real hot. Street Rossi activity on the street doesn't compare to track demands at higher speeds.
 
21 - 40 of 73 Posts
Top