[Gearheaded]

Yes, this is a pricey bug to be bitten by. I have a 2017 Fz10 that I've listed for sale to buy more track time and tires. This is why I am reluctant to make my R1 track-only; I ride most every day and don't want to stop. I live in NW Florida, and tracks are not just around the corner (closest is NOLA, 3.5 hrs drive) and track days certainly aren't available every weekend. While it's not any sort of comfy-cruiser, I will hop on the R1 and ride 3-4 hours no problem. I have never had any complaints with the brakes on the street, in fact they kick the sh$t out of my Fz10 brakes for feel and power. Having said that, I am reluctant to remove the ABS. I like what Smergy posted about using a "T" from the pump -I wonder if I could remove the fuse for the track and re-install for road riding?
Anyway, I wanted to post this picture to show you guys how much work I have ahead of me. I just want to gain the confidence and awareness to progressively improve. I've been riding bikes since 13 yrs old and will never stop until I can't swing a leg over; I am determined to grow on the track because I'm already addicted! View attachment 1016940

Frank, I’ll be there for sure! Hope you’re able to make it!

 

[ak69]

Are you sitting up on breaking? Body weight 200lbs - Suspension sag adjusted t bodyweight?

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[FranksRed1]

I had the suspension set up for me at a track day. I do sit up at braking

 

[FranksRed1]

Frank, I’ll be there for sure! Hope you’re able to make it!

I have not heard back from Eric yet regarding March 2nd. I am booked for 1/30-31, though. I will reach out to Eric again today-

 

[Gearheaded]

I have not heard back from Eric yet regarding March 2nd. I am booked for 1/30-31, though. I will reach out to Eric again today-

10-4. Hope it works out and you’re there. His days are always amazing for getting better

 

[Hooli]

Big boy pants might be needed if you pull a big handful of these pfm brakes🤣.

Lol. Are those calipers upside down? Brake banjo bolts usually go up top.

 

[FranksRed1]

10-4. Hope it works out and you’re there. His days are always amazing for getting better

I just paid for Friday, March 5 at Jennings- yes!!🎉

 

[dog78]

Lol. Are those calipers upside down? Brake banjo bolts usually go up top.

🤣, you wouldn't be able to see it anyway, because a hand full of them you would detatach your retinas 😂.
Tbh the Nova gearbox left me a bit deflated and them brakes. But both were excellent. Bit too old to make the best of them now, and I got enough for my pace.
Yes it is strange how PFM bolted the feed to the bottom.
Best brakes I have ever ridden besides the Xr45 i had a short go on years ago. But both are race brakes so you expect them to be brilliant. The Pfms were very powerful, great feel, two fingers is all you needed and it would lift the back wheel down the end of the back straight , amazing 👌👍

 

[2391jessie]

I had the suspension set up for me at a track day. I do sit up at braking

(

)
Look at 0:15s from motogp 2013 -See how the pegs are wedged in the ridge in heel and is supporting the bodyweight under braking (bodyweight is being forced thru the pegs) - interested to see if this technique makes a difference for you

 

[Gearheaded]

Look at 0:15s (

)
from motogp 2013 -See how the pegs are wedged in the ridge in heel and is supporting the bodyweight under braking (bodyweight is being forced thru the pegs) - interested to see if this technique makes a difference for you

All braking techniques are different tho. It’s difficult to compare to one Uber alien professional rider. Really you want to find your comfort, do a little comparison, and then begin to stress your comfort zone

 

[dog78]

I agree with Gearheaded, some of them GP riders have the back wheel in air with only one foot on the on the footrests. The Carbon rotors as well. If you could get them hot enough to work.
Alien was a good word as that XR45 RGB is how the bike felt to me. 500cc two stroke race bike dry clutch, ferocious powerband, instant vicious bite brakes. You can't even compare that to a modern R1.
I doubt you would learn anything from watching GP riders braking.
I have a tank extender on my R1 which takes a bit of pressure of your arms and stopped you sliding up the tank, but even that is something you like or not and personal.
The best thing you can get is professional tuition.
It is their ability to teach all abilities of riders, it is a bit different if you have raced, but even then you can learn a lot.
Even pro riders have rider coaches.
Gearheaded someone that races will instantly know the difference between fade and abs intrusion. I never had my abs on long if enough to pick the back wheel up as I only rode it in street once , but on track I knew there was a good possibility when on track, and when that happened to my friend, he said the front brake let go. For that reason alone i took it off. There are so many things involved, and tyres, brakes, suspension setup.
A lot to consider.
All Frank wants to know is why is brakes are getting weaker, fading or abs, which i am confident that Gearheaded will tell him in the first couple of laps if that.

 

[FranksRed1]

I agree with Gearheaded, some of them GP riders have the back wheel in air with only one foot on the on the footrests. The Carbon rotors as well. If you could get them hot enough to work.
Alien was a good word as that XR45 RGB is how the bike felt to me. 500cc two stroke race bike dry clutch, ferocious powerband, instant vicious bite brakes. You can't even compare that to a modern R1.
I doubt you would learn anything from watching GP riders braking.
I have a tank extender on my R1 which takes a bit of pressure of your arms and stopped you sliding up the tank, but even that is something you like or not and personal.
The best thing you can get is professional tuition.
It is their ability to teach all abilities of riders, it is a bit different if you have raced, but even then you can learn a lot.
Even pro riders have rider coaches.
Gearheaded someone that races will instantly know the difference between fade and abs intrusion. I never had my abs on long if enough to pick the back wheel up as I only rode it in street once , but on track I knew there was a good possibility when on track, and when that happened to my friend, he said the front brake let go. For that reason alone i took it off. There are so many things involved, and tyres, brakes, suspension setup.
A lot to consider.
All Frank wants to know is why is brakes are getting weaker, fading or abs, which i am confident that Gearheaded will tell him in the first couple of laps if that.

I appreciate watching the video, but that level of self awareness and control is other-worldly. At this point in my riding journey I am really trying to learn proper braking techniques, use them consistently, and actually feel what the heck is going on down there. I’m sure there’s nothing wrong with my stock brakes, and Gearheaded will show me their limits. In general, I am mod-reluctant. My R1 is way faster and stops way better than my skills can match.
Dog78, you speak an undeniable truth: I need private lessons. I have tried track school but it’s tough to get intensive personal instruction. I really want to do Yamaha Champions Riding School, but $2000 is a lot of track days/tires!

 

[dog78]

I appreciate watching the video, but that level of self awareness and control is other-worldly. At this point in my riding journey I am really trying to learn proper braking techniques, use them consistently, and actually feel what the heck is going on down there. I’m sure there’s nothing wrong with my stock brakes, and Gearheaded will show me their limits. In general, I am mod-reluctant. My R1 is way faster and stops way better than my skills can match.
Dog78, you speak an undeniable truth: I need private lessons. I have tried track school but it’s tough to get intensive personal instruction. I really want to do Yamaha Champions Riding School, but $2000 is a lot of track days/tires!

Hi Frank, it is £800 for a one to one tuition, we were going to split it between two of us.
My friend was at Portimao for the first time and was struggling, he's an ex racer but like me in the two stroke days. The instructor come past him onto the back straight one handed and looking back at him, turn 15 is fast there and you are talking of an ex BSB rider instructor, his company is called Not so fast, but the clue in there. He knocked off over a second on every turn. And my friend thought he was going slower.
It is a great experience, I done it at Almeria.
Things have changed a lot since i raced, but any instruction at an early stage will benifit you greatly as you progress. I had free instructor on my first trackday, and he asked me what bend was I having trouble with the most, I told him, I never got overtaken on that bend the rest of the day.
It is all down to experience and I am sure the Gearheaded will pass some of that on to you and give you hints. One of the things we were taught was going into a bend with a shut throttle, this i found hard to start with but a few sessions i quickly learnt the technique. The engine braking is so strong on these modern bikes and tyres are truly amazing. I used Metz Comp slicks last time, only for their longevity, they have a new TD tyre out they say you can use without tyre warmers, but personally I would, purely because it is something you have less to worry about. See how you get on with Gearheaded you will really enjoy it, and I wish both of you the best of luck and have great day on track


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[Gearheaded]

I appreciate watching the video, but that level of self awareness and control is other-worldly. At this point in my riding journey I am really trying to learn proper braking techniques, use them consistently, and actually feel what the heck is going on down there. I’m sure there’s nothing wrong with my stock brakes, and Gearheaded will show me their limits. In general, I am mod-reluctant. My R1 is way faster and stops way better than my skills can match.
Dog78, you speak an undeniable truth: I need private lessons. I have tried track school but it’s tough to get intensive personal instruction. I really want to do Yamaha Champions Riding School, but $2000 is a lot of track days/tires!

Hey brother, can’t wait to meet ya at the track. The private day is all setup for me, since I’ll be on new suspension for the season. I won’t be there chasing a time, since Jennings isn’t part of my season. Basically what I’m getting at is a few laps here and there I’ll be pushing for some stress on the bike, but other than that I’m there for you. You’re even welcome to pit with me if you’d like. Im not there to withhold any information I personally know either. My goal in life is to build this sport, not be better than anyone at it. If I can help you, you can help someone else, and the chain reaction begins. I’ll work with you all day if you’d like, there will be so much riding it’ll be a blast I promise. I’ll try and explain to the best if my ability what I see experience riding with ya, but by no means would I take what I say as gospel, just hopefully give ya a tip here or there. Honestly I’m super exited about it, because I remember my first few track days where I was begging for help and people didn’t bother to take the time.

Hi Frank, it is £800 for a one to one tuition, we were going to split it between two of us.
My friend was at Portimao for the first time and was struggling, he's an ex racer but like me in the two stroke days. The instructor come past him onto the back straight one handed and looking back at him, turn 15 is fast there and you are talking of an ex BSB rider instructor, his company is called Not so fast, but the clue in there. He knocked off over a second on every turn. And my friend thought he was going slower.
It is a great experience, I done it at Almeria.
Things have changed a lot since i raced, but any instruction at an early stage will benifit you greatly as you progress. I had free instructor on my first trackday, and he asked me what bend was I having trouble with the most, I told him, I never got overtaken on that bend the rest of the day.
It is all down to experience and I am sure the Gearheaded will pass some of that on to you and give you hints. One of the things we were taught was going into a bend with a shut throttle, this i found hard to start with but a few sessions i quickly learnt the technique. The engine braking is so strong on these modern bikes and tyres are truly amazing. I used Metz Comp slicks last time, only for their longevity, they have a new TD tyre out they say you can use without tyre warmers, but personally I would, purely because it is something you have less to worry about. See how you get on with Gearheaded you will really enjoy it, and I wish both of you the best of luck and have great day on track

one 2 one instruction is so good. Really you can’t learn enough from someone with years of experience, it’s almost like you need to video record everything they spit out and revisit it for 5 days, then go back and try again lol.
Very rarely do I get to give back to the community anymore, racing is a different life because some people’s livelihoods are on the line. You walk up to them and ask something; and they give you a look like you just reached into their pocket and took their wallet. Then there’s the elitists who won’t let you walk into their paddock.

The best motorcycling event I’ve ever been to was my first track day, that was put on by the R1 forum. Not knowing a single person starting the day to literally walking into random peoples campers to meet them and eat their food, hanging out, talking motorcycles. It was like a family reunion except with people nicer than your family. I dream of days like that again, even my wife talks about it.

 

[neocryte]

A lot has been said here already. The R1 brakes are not great. But good enough. ABS is a rider preference. It's great for the street, generally not good for the track.

Brake systems are very simple: brake lines, fluid, pads, calipers, master cylinder.

Your bike is new, so your calipers should be fine. You can upgrade:

Brake lines -> replace with braided steel, to avoid lines expanding
Fluid -> replace with better, track/race-ready stuff (RBF 600+); there can also be air in your lines - a proper bleed will fix that
Pads -> usually makes the biggest difference, try any sintered street/track pads.. for track use only, I highly recommend SBS DS compound
MC -> the OEM unit is OK, but a Brembo unit is better, like an RCS19 for the street (or just a 19x18 for the track)

If the hardware is fine, to a lot of great suggestions here, more seat-time and training will do the trick!

 

[[email protected]@alltimes]

A lot has been said here already. The R1 brakes are not great. But good enough. ABS is a rider preference. It's great for the street, generally not good for the track.

Brake systems are very simple: brake lines, fluid, pads, calipers, master cylinder.

Your bike is new, so your calipers should be fine. You can upgrade:

Brake lines -> replace with braided steel, to avoid lines expanding
Fluid -> replace with better, track/race-ready stuff (RBF 600+); there can also be air in your lines - a proper bleed will fix that
Pads -> usually makes the biggest difference, try any sintered street/track pads.. for track use only, I highly recommend SBS DS compound
MC -> the OEM unit is OK, but a Brembo unit is better, like an RCS19 for the street (or just a 19x18 for the track)

If the hardware is fine, to a lot of great suggestions here, more seat-time and training will do the trick!

I hear your a 1 pinky braker...


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[Hooli]

Brake lines -> replace with braided steel, to avoid lines expanding

Actually, the front lines (between the calipers and the junction block) are already braided SS; hardlines run to the ABS pump. Rear hose is conventional rubber (along the top of the swingarm).

 

[FranksRed1]

Hi Frank, it is £800 for a one to one tuition, we were going to split it between two of us.
My friend was at Portimao for the first time and was struggling, he's an ex racer but like me in the two stroke days. The instructor come past him onto the back straight one handed and looking back at him, turn 15 is fast there and you are talking of an ex BSB rider instructor, his company is called Not so fast, but the clue in there. He knocked off over a second on every turn. And my friend thought he was going slower.
It is a great experience, I done it at Almeria.
Things have changed a lot since i raced, but any instruction at an early stage will benifit you greatly as you progress. I had free instructor on my first trackday, and he asked me what bend was I having trouble with the most, I told him, I never got overtaken on that bend the rest of the day.
It is all down to experience and I am sure the Gearheaded will pass some of that on to you and give you hints. One of the things we were taught was going into a bend with a shut throttle, this i found hard to start with but a few sessions i quickly learnt the technique. The engine braking is so strong on these modern bikes and tyres are truly amazing. I used Metz Comp slicks last time, only for their longevity, they have a new TD tyre out they say you can use without tyre warmers, but personally I would, purely because it is something you have less to worry about. See how you get on with Gearheaded you will really enjoy it, and I wish both of you the best of luck and have great day on track


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dog78-
I am envious of the tracks you have been on-this is world class stuff! Then again, what is it like riding the roads in England on a daily basis? Do you have to go to Europe to really get moving? I grew up riding in southern California, and the roads were superb everywhere. Lots of hills/mountains with roads in very good condition to wide open desert highways. Very fun.
I have been trying closed throttle turns when I remember to work on it, and it feels ok. I tend to slow down to early as it is, so this sort of works out nicely sometimes. Again, I don't have good, consistent braking skills at this point. When I slow down way too early and too much I hit the bend so slowly that I pick up the throttle early and get the bike's weight on the wrong end. One obvious reason that I haven't been consistent on track is that I haven't been using markers. I have a total of 6 track days, so to this point I get out there and I'm so damn excited I kind of forget everything and just go-bad habits and all. This has definitely improved with each track day. I'm so pumped up for this private track day with Gearheaded not only to take advantage of his very kind offer of advice, but the open track setting will totally help put me in a more relaxed state of mind. The track we are going to has a private coach available (pre-covid!) that has been suspended until further notice; I will check on this when I am there in two weeks.
As far as tires, I run dual-compound sport tires. Right now I have Metzeler Sportec M7rr's on my R1 because I do so much street riding. I did one track day on these; I got some rear tire slide on exits and I think even pushed the front end a bit. I am putting a new rear on for my upcoming track weekend. I know these are not very sticky compared to the RS11's that came on the bike, but I burned the rear up just breaking the motor in. I replaced the rear with a RS10 and did two days at Barber. I really liked that tire, but I did some wet-weather riding with it and that was not fun. Yet another reason my FZ-10 is for sale.
Thanks and ride safe!

 

[FranksRed1]

Hey brother, can’t wait to meet ya at the track. The private day is all setup for me, since I’ll be on new suspension for the season. I won’t be there chasing a time, since Jennings isn’t part of my season. Basically what I’m getting at is a few laps here and there I’ll be pushing for some stress on the bike, but other than that I’m there for you. You’re even welcome to pit with me if you’d like. Im not there to withhold any information I personally know either. My goal in life is to build this sport, not be better than anyone at it. If I can help you, you can help someone else, and the chain reaction begins. I’ll work with you all day if you’d like, there will be so much riding it’ll be a blast I promise. I’ll try and explain to the best if my ability what I see experience riding with ya, but by no means would I take what I say as gospel, just hopefully give ya a tip here or there. Honestly I’m super exited about it, because I remember my first few track days where I was begging for help and people didn’t bother to take the time.


one 2 one instruction is so good. Really you can’t learn enough from someone with years of experience, it’s almost like you need to video record everything they spit out and revisit it for 5 days, then go back and try again lol.
Very rarely do I get to give back to the community anymore, racing is a different life because some people’s livelihoods are on the line. You walk up to them and ask something; and they give you a look like you just reached into their pocket and took their wallet. Then there’s the elitists who won’t let you walk into their paddock.

The best motorcycling event I’ve ever been to was my first track day, that was put on by the R1 forum. Not knowing a single person starting the day to literally walking into random peoples campers to meet them and eat their food, hanging out, talking motorcycles. It was like a family reunion except with people nicer than your family. I dream of days like that again, even my wife talks about it.

Gearheaded-
I can't thank you enough for offering your advice. I'm really looking forward to meeting you at the track and absorbing a true open-track setting. I think your attitude toward the sport is very much like mine. I have no intention of racing at this stage of my life, but you never know. I am, though, totally dedicated to improving my riding. Riding is all I want to do with my time outside of work, and since I got back into sportbikes I fully realized how much I don't know. I am actively working of improvements; yesterday I rode for 2 hrs in the morning and 3 hrs in the afternoon. I was working on riding position (I tend to crowd the tank unless I really concentrate) and using the rear brake without locking it during hard braking. Anyway, my point is I'm all-in and a very eager student of the sport. I will try my best not to bug the sh$t out of you as I will take all of the advice you are willing to give. It would be awesome to pit with you; I'm quite the newbie at the track and don't really know what's cool or not. I am glad that I get a preview of Jennings 1/30-1/31 so I have some idea of the layout and the lines on the track.
I have met some nice people and seen them at more than one track; even a few of the control riders are becoming familiar to me as they seem to go to all the regional tracks no matter the organization. I do see the "elitist" thing even at the track day level, though. I think in general, the older the person/group the more welcoming. They recognize my rookie status and are cool about it. It's a shame that the race community can be so attitude-filled. I guess I get it to a certain extent, but not really. It has always seemed to me that riding bikes isn't for everyone, and those of us that do ride connect with each other immediately. I enjoyed a lot of that sort of thing riding dirt bikes in the desert in California. Once you were out there, the camp sites just sort of mixed together and it was all about enjoying the riding and then talking about it at the fire. I even tried riding a Harley for a few years and getting in with that community, but that was more about buying shiny chrome to make your bike louder and stopping at all the taverns you could find. Unfortunately my wife isn't in to hanging out at the track while I ride and I don't have any friends that ride sport bikes, so when I go to the track I'm a loner.
I am wondering about you racer-types...do you even ride on the street? If not, how often do you ride on the track when you are not racing? Are there tracks close to you or do you travel constantly during racing season or even the off-season? If you do ride on the street, does it mess with your track riding? Do you train in the dirt? I am considering trading my FZ-10 for a dirt bike to find grip limits and mess with it. Sorry for the barrage of questions, but you know....

 

[dog78]

Hi Frank and Gearheaded, that was great post Gearheaded. I absolutely agree that can't learn or take in as much as you would like of a pro coach especially when they have rode to such a high standard of racing. They are good at coping with pure novices and racers.
Riding bikes on track can be frustrating when you are learning, and I remember being at Almeria and dropping it the gravel, I took to it when i was behind the instructor, i thought i slowed down enough to turn the steering to get back on track. Big mistake and broke some of my rear brake parts.
We never had runoff like that when I was racing late 70s 80s, but I learnt my lesson because the next time it happened was when I hit a false neutral and I was fine, just used the back brake to slow it down to a stop, then back on track to the paddock and back out again after checking it over .
Towards the end of the 6 days i felt like pushing the bike over out of frustration. Anyway it was my 5th day and i had missed about 3 and lost my tuition for the first, I was on track and the instructor came past me and pointed to his back wheel and took me around for about 6 laps, it made such a difference that i moved up a group. Also a faster rider took me around for half a session and the circuit seemed to be twice as wide 😁.
We will be going there again soon and this time I will show some restraint and complete my days tuition.
Yes i do miss the racing but days camping the night before, it became a way of life for eight years for me.
My late childhood friend who raced at the Isle of Man, Macau and i was a mechanic was a great experience too.
Getting to ride the XR 45 when he had a broken leg, so it was left to me to test it on an airfield where i worked, that ferocity I have never experienced since. It proves how good some racers were racing them 500cc two strokes which were very unforgiving.
Racing paddocks are very helpful places, there's always someone that is prepared to help, the amount of times we have lent or borrowed parts, help with gearing when on a new track and loads more.
I hope you have a great season this year✌👍
Frank, you are very lucky and you are going to have a great day with Gearheaded.
I normally run Metz K2 on the rear K1 on the front, i use them on the street, but although they are a street legal tyre, they are supposed to be used with tyre warmers.
I would not recommend it, I only ride in the summer.
K3s are the best solution for street and good for track too. But tyres are such a personal thing. As you progress you will find yours, all the tyres you mentioned that you use will be fine.
Braking, trail braking is something that instructors don't normally teach to a Novice.
There is so much engine braking on that R1, it is not like the old two strokes which had hardly anything. Also it something you will pickup as you ride more on track.
You are very lucky to ride all year around, unlike us and the roads are not good over here.
The R1 has turned into a trackbike really, the suspension is to hard for the road, i can back it off a little, but it is on the the cusp when it comes to springs, but you can't have it both ways as it is sublime on track.
I have the Aprilia for the street which is very capable bike, and there's so much traffic on the roads here. You are much safer on track than street.
I see they are doing airbag leathers now at a reasonable price now, something to consider, also being in the comfortable gear makes such a difference. It would always piss me off that I had to pull my leathers by the knees to get my feet on the rearsets, hopefully something I won't have to do with my PSI ones.
Hey anyway enjoy your track time with Gearheaded, i wish i could be there✌👍.