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Discussion Starter #22
Either there’s something wrong with your bike, or maybe you. The brakes aren’t that bad, it’s impossible. You may have a factory defective part or something, because guys win races with the 2020 bikes on stock brakes, and they are fast!
Are you sure this wasn't with the ABS disabled in the ECU that someone would win a race? Or the ABS fuse pulled. There is something wrong with my bike, its that the traction control isn't working and it was working fine, but I don't think that has anything to do with the ABS. 100% of the video reviews mentioned the brakes sucking on the 2020 model. The ABS feathering system has worked the same since I first rode the bike. The only comment I retract is that can't do balance point wheelies, the engine braking at balance point does seem less grippy than I remember any other bike being, but it can balance just fine and perfectly safe. That has nothing to do with anything necessary in the function of a street/canyon/track/race bike. Find someone with a 2020 bike with no ECU/ABS/fuse mod's and do some braking tests on it, you will puke or laugh at how bad it is.

That being said my bike is almost due for new tires (I have the tires) and when I have them installed I'm going to have my dealer do a warranty check on the traction control. I swear it is something like a "stack overflow" error that that other guy mentioned, in that it got erroneous data and crashed the TCS/SCS software.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
It's definitely this guy! He has no clue how anything works on his bike. I just hope he doesn't kill himself on it for trying to hard to keep up with the cool kids.
1009705
(me in 2006). Yes I got new leathers right after but they don't fit anymore.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
1009706
me in 2003.
 

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just my $.02. When you say your TC isn't working are you talking about the dash. Because as I stated before when you trip the error code the dash goes into safe mode so you can't change any settings. But that doesn't disable TC. Whatever your settings were when you tripped the error code is the mode the bike is run until that code is cleared.. ecu reflash isn't required to clear the code, simply take your bike back the dealer and they can clear the error code. It's a new bike so they should do it for free.

As for the brakes, the feel is a personal preference, but I had no issues with my brakes at all. I got my bike in Nov and broke it in at the track. While prepping at the track I tripped the error code and got locked out of the settings. but I ran the whole weekend that way with no issues. When I got home I stopped by my dealer and they cleared the code in 3min for free no hassle.

If you don't like the feel of the brakes you have a lot of options to try and improve that. but before you can start demanding recalls you need to get your bike checked out. If you think there is a ABS issue or TC then take it back to the dealership. If you have the bike in the wrong mode the ABS will activate EARLY. So again what you should do is clear the error code so you have access to the bike's settings.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
just my $.02. When you say your TC isn't working are you talking about the dash. Because as I stated before when you trip the error code the dash goes into safe mode so you can't change any settings. But that doesn't disable TC. Whatever your settings were when you tripped the error code is the mode the bike is run until that code is cleared.. ecu reflash isn't required to clear the code, simply take your bike back the dealer and they can clear the error code. It's a new bike so they should do it for free.

As for the brakes, the feel is a personal preference, but I had no issues with my brakes at all. I got my bike in Nov and broke it in at the track. While prepping at the track I tripped the error code and got locked out of the settings. but I ran the whole weekend that way with no issues. When I got home I stopped by my dealer and they cleared the code in 3min for free no hassle.

If you don't like the feel of the brakes you have a lot of options to try and improve that. but before you can start demanding recalls you need to get your bike checked out. If you think there is a ABS issue or TC then take it back to the dealership. If you have the bike in the wrong mode the ABS will activate EARLY. So again what you should do is clear the error code so you have access to the bike's settings.
I changed the oil and I ran the 2020 R1 up on the stands to lube the chain and when I started the bike back up the engine trouble light was on and the dash was locked out. I thought my oil level might be a little high, so I decided to ride it down the street and then then put gas in it and the engine trouble light turned off (and its been off for the last 600mi now) and the dash menu's started working again but the TCS physically wont work when I go over gravel whereas it was before the engine trouble light came on for the first time. My R1 is my only vehicle so I am hesitant to take it back right away. The bike now has 1200mi.

Ah41, do you have a 2020 model R1 or a 2015-2019? They updated the coding in the ABS brakes on the 2020 model.
 

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I have a 2020. I can understand the concern with it being your only vehicle but if the TC doesn't physically work then take the bike in and have it looked at. Before you start calling for a recall. Even if you don't leave it, I'm sure you can schedule something in advanced and have them run a diagnostic to see if there is an issue while you wait. As for the brakes again I think that is a matter of personal preference regarding the "feel". But as with the TC if you think there is an actual issue with the functionality of the system and it's safety concern. Take the bike in and have it looked at. Until you do that you can't expect Yamaha or anyone on the web to really provide any help. And you also now start to become responsible for any issues with the bike as you have noticed some potential malfunctions but yet didn't do anything about it and potentially made it worse.

You can make a bunch of changes pads, lines, calipers, etc...... but if there is a problem with the ABS system in general you will be wasting a lot of time and money. So first need to make sure the bike and it's systems are actually working correctly. If they are then you have some hard choices to make. These companies can't please everyone perfectly so they go with a middle ground. If you don't like the way the ABC comes in and can't adjust your riding to it then you have no choice but to make changes to the bike be it parts or ECU upgrades. Or worse case get a different bike.

Like I said I broke my 2020 in at the track with the engine light on so I was locked out of the settings. My settings were mode A with everything else set to the least intrusive setting. I didn't have any problems with my ABS and I purposely focused on the brakes as it's the first bike I've had with ABS. I've heard the constant complaints regarding the brakes on Yamaha bikes. I've had Italian bikes with Brembos and yes going between them and Yamaha took a little adapting, but to me it wasn't anywhere as bad as people made it out to be. The same as going from Brembo to Nissin. Different system different feel doesn't mean one is bad. The way I've read people talk about Yamaha brakes you'd think they just don't work. The only thing I've done on my previous yamaha's was change the brake lines and fluid and I've had no issues with brake fade. As for the 2020 while I didn't have any issues with the brakes or the ABS I'm not a fan of ABS on bikes so I'll be removing the system so that it is not a factor. I did my research and knew going in Yamaha does not include an option to disable the ABS before I bought the bike. So now I'll have to spend extra $$ to remove and bypass the system. But that is my choice. You don't have to go that drastic, but you do have to put the effort in to learn and adapt to the system, get it repaired if it's actually broken, or upgrade it to your tastes
 

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Discussion Starter #30
I have a 2020. I can understand the concern with it being your only vehicle but if the TC doesn't physically work then take the bike in and have it looked at. Before you start calling for a recall. Even if you don't leave it, I'm sure you can schedule something in advanced and have them run a diagnostic to see if there is an issue while you wait. As for the brakes again I think that is a matter of personal preference regarding the "feel". But as with the TC if you think there is an actual issue with the functionality of the system and it's safety concern. Take the bike in and have it looked at. Until you do that you can't expect Yamaha or anyone on the web to really provide any help. And you also now start to become responsible for any issues with the bike as you have noticed some potential malfunctions but yet didn't do anything about it and potentially made it worse.

You can make a bunch of changes pads, lines, calipers, etc...... but if there is a problem with the ABS system in general you will be wasting a lot of time and money. So first need to make sure the bike and it's systems are actually working correctly. If they are then you have some hard choices to make. These companies can't please everyone perfectly so they go with a middle ground. If you don't like the way the ABC comes in and can't adjust your riding to it then you have no choice but to make changes to the bike be it parts or ECU upgrades. Or worse case get a different bike.

Like I said I broke my 2020 in at the track with the engine light on so I was locked out of the settings. My settings were mode A with everything else set to the least intrusive setting. I didn't have any problems with my ABS and I purposely focused on the brakes as it's the first bike I've had with ABS. I've heard the constant complaints regarding the brakes on Yamaha bikes. I've had Italian bikes with Brembos and yes going between them and Yamaha took a little adapting, but to me it wasn't anywhere as bad as people made it out to be. The same as going from Brembo to Nissin. Different system different feel doesn't mean one is bad. The way I've read people talk about Yamaha brakes you'd think they just don't work. The only thing I've done on my previous yamaha's was change the brake lines and fluid and I've had no issues with brake fade. As for the 2020 while I didn't have any issues with the brakes or the ABS I'm not a fan of ABS on bikes so I'll be removing the system so that it is not a factor. I did my research and knew going in Yamaha does not include an option to disable the ABS before I bought the bike. So now I'll have to spend extra $$ to remove and bypass the system. But that is my choice. You don't have to go that drastic, but you do have to put the effort in to learn and adapt to the system, get it repaired if it's actually broken, or upgrade it to your tastes
You being riding your bike on the track only might be why you don't know how bad the ABS system is. Yamaha has AI detection software to sense when you get off high throttle straight onto the front brakes and then they work OKish, but if you are going along at a steady speed and suddenly grab brake like an animal ran out infront of you or a car pulled out infront of you, the ABS regulator feathering system kicks in as if the ABS software has a bogus "anit-dive" control system.

Almost all the video reviews badly complained about the front brake ABS issues and the rest did complain about the front brakes in a more minor mention.
 

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You being riding your bike on the track only might be why you don't know how bad the ABS system is. Yamaha has AI detection software to sense when you get off high throttle straight onto the front brakes and then they work OKish, but if you are going along at a steady speed and suddenly grab brake like an animal ran out infront of you or a car pulled out infront of you, the ABS regulator feathering system kicks in as if the ABS software has a bogus "anit-dive" control system.

Almost all the video reviews badly complained about the front brake ABS issues and the rest did complain about the front brakes in a more minor mention.
Ok call me dumb but that doesn't make any sense to me and honestly I'm not trying to start a fight :) The ABS has two settings basically one for straight line and one for cornering. There is more to it than high speed throttle and load speed throttle. The purpose of ABS is to prevent locking up of the brakes. You can lock the brakes at low, steady or high speed. So yeah if you "grab" the brake in panic for animal in theory yeah the ABS is probably going to kick in. Likewise at the track you are more likely to have aggressive braking due to the nature of riding on the track. additionally you are generally riding in close quarters with others so the "animal or car" situation applies either from passing or someone making a mistake.

From the reviews I've seen it's been mixed on the ABS depending on the rider. Less aggressive riders complained less about the ABS. While more aggressive riders complained about the ABS but they also tended to mention they went faster when the lowered the TCS settings as well. The primary item is control. Like I said I didn't have any real issues or complaints about the ABS though I could feel it working. As I was locked out of the settings I adjusted my riding to suit and had no issues. Having said that I've since bypassed the ABS completely on mine since there is no option to simply turn it off. But that is personal preference I want the control in my hands and in all my years of riding I have never had a situation where I thought whoa I wish I had ABS. I'm not going to try and convince you the brakes are great, obviously you aren't a fan of the system and/or the feel. But there is a huge difference between not liking something and something being broken. Do what you feel you need to, to get the bike to how you like it but you'd probably get more informative responses if you asked for opinions on options as opposed to saying something is broken. I can sit here and say Dunlops Q3/4 tires are bad because I don't like them but that wouldn't be a true statement.
 

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I installed my EPFA380HH pads today and put about 50 miles on my bike with the new pads. I'm not sure if they need more bed-in time, but the result is that my stopping distances did improve by probably 20%, the algorithms on the 2020 ABS system is MESSED UP. Basically a smooth progressive brake that does not exceed about 75-80% of braking force wont activate the ABS, but anything track like or emergency stopping activates the ABS feathering system, which actually is so messed up it makes the front tire squeal when it regrips the pads which defeats the entire purpose of ABS. There appears to be no way to just grab a handfull of brake from the start, like as if you were triyng to outbrake someone into a corner on a track, the ABS just goes straight into feather mode. I'm surprised the bike passed DOT inspections with this. It makes me wonder if Yamaha rides their own product. Basically I think what happened is one of their engineers was taught a college class that gave some formula type example of some kind of dynamics of chassis upsets and they tried to apply it to high traction ABS motorcycle systems and it didn't work because modern tires on sportbikes get unlimited traction on clean pavement and they wrote the ABS so it keeps trying to predict traction loss before it happens. It makes sense they messed with it, because the Yamaha manual states BC2 does this taking into account lean angle, but this isn't at 45 degrees of lean angle (a R1 with good tires can probably take full non-ABS brake to roughly 35-40 degrees of lean), it is with the bike stood up. I am riding in BC1 so it does not take into account lean angle to guess my traction limit. Basically they gave the 2020 ABS brakes a drunken mushroom trip.

The ABS doesn't seem to be gyro activated but rather decel rate activated with the initial bite having the weakest part of the curve, but still too much brake force midway through the stop will also trigger the ABS feathering system.

I am sure Yamaha will issue a firmware flash recall, or ECU recall when the print magazines publish this in the spring, hopefully they are already working on a fix. Basically I give the braking system a "F" grade and with the new pads a "F" on steroids. This is going to be impossible for Yamaha to not fix. I love how the bike handles, I love how it makes good power under 13k.

I have 1100mi on the bike now. Basically it handles better than any bike I have ever ridden so I'm real happy about that and having some idea of what is wrong with the ABS I have confidence Yamaha will issue an recall/firmware update to fix it. Other than that, it needs a FTECU flash to get rid of the throttle shutting down to 83% at 13k.

Sounds like the ABS is monitoring the brake fluid pressure and activating based on the rate of change of pressure over a certain threshold. My 2015 R1M brakes ain't nothing to write home about for sure, but they don't do anything like yours do. My biggest complaints are with the linked brakes..... I almost rear ended a buddy at the Tail of the Dragon because of a dip at the entrance of a tight corner. The front stayed planted to asphalt on the brakes but when the rear became unweighted and started to lock the ABS kicked in and I lost my front brakes. I've also had it take braking away into corners that have expansion joints/lips and suddenly find I have 6 feet less to get the bike on line than I was planning to and the suspension unsettled. That's a little unnerving.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
Sounds like the ABS is monitoring the brake fluid pressure and activating based on the rate of change of pressure over a certain threshold. My 2015 R1M brakes ain't nothing to write home about for sure, but they don't do anything like yours do. My biggest complaints are with the linked brakes..... I almost rear ended a buddy at the Tail of the Dragon because of a dip at the entrance of a tight corner. The front stayed planted to asphalt on the brakes but when the rear became unweighted and started to lock the ABS kicked in and I lost my front brakes. I've also had it take braking away into corners that have expansion joints/lips and suddenly find I have 6 feet less to get the bike on line than I was planning to and the suspension unsettled. That's a little unnerving.
Whoever designed the R1 brakes (all 2015-2020 models) should face criminal charges over this whole ABS issue. Could you imagine if this were a car how many news stories the "tragic brakes of the R1" would make? Yamaha should had outsourced the ABS system if they couldn't do it right, or just not included ABS as a feature, or at the very least allow the ABS to be turned off through the dash.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
Ok call me dumb but that doesn't make any sense to me and honestly I'm not trying to start a fight :) The ABS has two settings basically one for straight line and one for cornering. There is more to it than high speed throttle and load speed throttle. The purpose of ABS is to prevent locking up of the brakes. You can lock the brakes at low, steady or high speed. So yeah if you "grab" the brake in panic for animal in theory yeah the ABS is probably going to kick in. Likewise at the track you are more likely to have aggressive braking due to the nature of riding on the track. additionally you are generally riding in close quarters with others so the "animal or car" situation applies either from passing or someone making a mistake.

From the reviews I've seen it's been mixed on the ABS depending on the rider. Less aggressive riders complained less about the ABS. While more aggressive riders complained about the ABS but they also tended to mention they went faster when the lowered the TCS settings as well. The primary item is control. Like I said I didn't have any real issues or complaints about the ABS though I could feel it working. As I was locked out of the settings I adjusted my riding to suit and had no issues. Having said that I've since bypassed the ABS completely on mine since there is no option to simply turn it off. But that is personal preference I want the control in my hands and in all my years of riding I have never had a situation where I thought whoa I wish I had ABS. I'm not going to try and convince you the brakes are great, obviously you aren't a fan of the system and/or the feel. But there is a huge difference between not liking something and something being broken. Do what you feel you need to, to get the bike to how you like it but you'd probably get more informative responses if you asked for opinions on options as opposed to saying something is broken. I can sit here and say Dunlops Q3/4 tires are bad because I don't like them but that wouldn't be a true statement.
I found that I locked up the front brake about once every 10,000 street miles mixed in with track days and racing. Anticipating the front brake will lock up is a false issue, what limits sportbike braking in the dry is stoppie-limited.

I am only using BC1 as BC2 states in the manual it guesses based on lean angle.
 

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Whoever designed the R1 brakes (all 2015-2020 models) should face criminal charges over this whole ABS issue. Could you imagine if this were a car how many news stories the "tragic brakes of the R1" would make? Yamaha should had outsourced the ABS system if they couldn't do it right, or just not included ABS as a feature, or at the very least allow the ABS to be turned off through the dash.
Sounds like they did something different for 2020, my bike doesn't preemptively engage the ABS when I pull the lever quickly. It acts like a normal set of brakes, and I have never had the ABS kick in without forcing it to. The pad choice sucks by contemporary standards and they don't offer a lot of feel, but I suspect all of that ABS plumbing has something to do with it. Still, other companies manage to have ABS without mushy levers or poor feedback.....so I dunno.

The impression I get is that Yamaha tried really hard to develop a bike with a truly integrated safety and performance oriented electronics package, as opposed to a system with individual modules that act independently. It sounds like some of it is compromised or wasn't fully developed. The 2015-2019 electronics are probably still the best on the market compared to their rivals-you have to remember that this was a bike developed during the recession.... which was a hell of a long time ago-those electronics were revolutionary.

But yeah, sounds like your brakes suck worse ass than mine do if that is possible. I sucks to have a top end superbike that you wish had brakes only just as good as the 14 year old stock brakes on your GSXR.....
 

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are you sure you're not just getting a full taste of 'non balanced brakes'? that is something
that has changed for 2020 isnt it? meaning previously the rear brake was actively engaged
even if you were only squeezing the front brake lever. Could this also affect how ABS
behaves? I mean one side of the crowd believes the earlier system was overly intrusive.
and you seem to be harping on 'not nearly intrusive' enough.. Considering its one dude on
one particular bike, wild speculation vs actual analysis will only get you 'ridicule' on a
public forum..
 

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Discussion Starter #37
Sounds like they did something different for 2020, my bike doesn't preemptively engage the ABS when I pull the lever quickly. It acts like a normal set of brakes, and I have never had the ABS kick in without forcing it to.
That is exactly what my 2020 does.
 

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thats what i'm talking about.. :D
 
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