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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
You must first know a little bit about the subject. That's not a bash, just a true statement.

To say NASCAR is just guys driving in circles is like saying Hockey is just guys skating after a piece of rubber. You could make that same basic analogy about any other sport.

Nascar requires more stamina than people realize. Ask anyone who has ever gone to a Richard Petty Driving Experience about the effects on their body after only 8 laps of the g-forces endured on banked ovals at over 100 MPH. Now understand that NASCAR drivers undergo 400 to 500 laps of that at speeds reaching 190 MPH. Add in the heat factor that has in-car temps reaching into triple digits easily. I challenge anyone to say that alone wouldn't take the stamina of a conditioned athlete. During this whole time, the driver can NOT break his attention span for a moment. Still, he must pilot a car on the brink of losing it through a field of 42 others that are willing to push it further just to be in a position to win a race.

In NASCAR, there is an occasional yellow flag. Do drivers relax then? Nope. They pit for a scant 13-16 seconds while their team changes 4 tires and fills up with 22 gallons of fuel as they try to win a race within a race and get their driver out of the pits in a good position. There are no halftimes, quarters or periods in NASCAR. It's balls out from the word go!

I'd like to see any critic of the sport try to jump a wall and run around the car carrying the jack that they use. I would also like to see them throw the tires around as if they were weightless.

In addition to the physical aspects of the sport, there is also a tremendous reliance on engineering knowledge and the properties of physics. There are thousands of seperate adjustments possible and each track demands it's own. Even then, that same track adjustment will vary from visit to visit with something as minor as a 10 degree difference in air temperature. In the end, a crew chief is responsible for finding the ONE setup that will be the best.

Any other sport played in any other venue still sees the same type of field. Football, basketball, baseball... the variations are basically the playing surface and crowd noise. Other than that, the dimensions are the same for the most part.

In NASCAR, they will run a different track each week with different banking. From the 2.5 mile Superspeedways of Talladega and Daytona to the .5 mile 36 degree banking of Bristol Motor Speedway; the fastest half mile on the planet. Throw in some 1.5 milers and a few road courses and you have a major job cut out for a NASCAR team to find the right setup each and every week while they work overtime during a season that lasts from February to November.

Do they cross the country in planes? Nope. Truckloads of equipment are carted across country as they visit places like California, New York, Texas, Michigan and numerous southern states week in and week out.

These guys bust their butts!!!!!!

No person who straps themselves in for 500 miles of breakneck speeds while fighting a car hell-bent on spinning into a concrete wall all while enduring the sweltering heat created by a 90 degree day, blacktop and a 1500 degree exhaust blasting under the thin sheet metal that seperates it from their foot should be called anything less than an athlete. Unless your idea of an athlete is a 300 lb linebacker who spends half of his game time on the sidelines.

NASCAR is chock full of tough guys running sometimes on sheer will while dehydrating at the wheel as they converse with a crew chief with an engineering degree to figure out how to go 1 or 2 MPH faster.

Not only is NASCAR one of the toughest sports on the planet, it's competetors are the most diversified.

Yea, I know... you just see guys driving in circles.

Racing, and I mean all forms of it, is SO much more than that.

Of course, this is just my humble opinion. :)
 

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R6-R6-R6-R6-R6
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Great post Nick!
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks LOL!

Talk about jumping in head first! Didn't mean to crash your board with such presence. I just heard about it from Thatsracin and thought I'd check it out.

Personaly, I know nuttin' about superbikes but I sure don't mind watching them race when I catch a race on t.v. Also, I can understand people when they say "I know it takes skill, but it does nothing for me" because that's how I felt when I attended a Supercorss here at the Pontiac Silverdome. It was not nearly as spectacular as I thought it would be and, since I wasn't familiar with the sport or any of it's riders except Mcgrath, I was quite bored watching "a train of motorcyles buzzing by" Also, I felt out of place in the crowd without a tattoo and pierced facial features.

I'm sure it would be different if I were into the sport more myself. Still I would never say anything bad about it or the fans. It was just not for me.

I guess it really gets to me when people go as far as to say NASCAR is not a sport. Racing as a whole is more physical than people give it credit for and even I know that motocross tops that list even though I'm not a fan of it.

Have a super day!!!!
 

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I for one find it hard watching NASCAR .. as the cars just go round and round .. with no action. That's when I change channel to cartoon or something more fun. :rolleyes:
 

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I eat my R1
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NASCAR IS A JOKE

If you compare NASCAR against any other driving sport will you see that NASCAR just sucks. They don’t shift as much they only turn left (expect for two races WOW) and they don’t have to fight the steering wheel from left to right. Watch the in car cam in NASCAR then watch it in another driving sport. All the drivers in other races are working much harder than the NASCAR drivers. I think setting up a car for a road course is a lot harder than doing it for a course that goes in circles. You talk about yellow flags. They go in get tires and everything, which I agree is hard for the pit crew but, I would love to see one of those pit crew guys go and play a full game of football. I can tell you that they would be on their asses and not be able to walk the next couple days if they don’t have broken bones. You also say ” NASCAR is chock full of tough guys running sometimes on sheer will while dehydrating at the wheel” In all the races I saw it showed a guy that had a tube that he could drink water out of the whole time during the race. I don’t see no dehydrating going on there. One quote you said made me laugh it was when you said “Not only is NASCAR one of the toughest sports on the planet” Yes, it is tuff but not nearly ass tuff as football, Ice Hockey or Rugby. Any way you look at it out of all the motor sports NASCAR has to be on the lower end of scale. Of course, this is just my humble opinion.:D
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Yes, you are correct. I doubt if any driver could last a full game of football, but that doesn't mean crap.

I have a friend who runs marathons. He clicks off 30 miles as if it were nothing. Me? I would be hailing a taxi after one or two miles and then spend the rest of the day catching my breath.

Now, put me on a mountain bike with that same friend along for a trail ride through the 17 mile Potowotowmee trail here in Michigan. 1 mile into the ride, he is holding his hand over his chest to contain his beating heart while vowing never to get on a bicycle again while I smoke his marathon runnin ass through the woods and take a nap back at the truck while waiting for him to get finished. It's all what you are conditioned for.

I never said any other athlete wasn't what they were. My opinion of NASCAR drivers is actually one of all racers. To face the danger they face, they ARE the toughest athletes. That doesn't mean I think others are weak.

As far as the drinking fluids while driving, LOL! Tell me how they replenish the 15 pounds of water weight lost by sipping on a straw every so often.
Tell Bobby Labonte that he was just imagining things at Bristol last year when he was calling for a relief driver due to dehydration.

You also have another point that I'll agree with. They mostly tuen left. yup. But if you understood that a stock car is twice as heavy as an Indy car or FI car with tires twice as small, you might see where the setups are so important and hard to figure out. I guess I see more than left turns. I see camber, caster, wedge, track bar, sway bar, air pressure, grille tape, gear ratios, RPM's, pit times........

Have you ever seen a NASCAR race in real life? Have you seen 43 cars blow by you seperated by 4 seconds from 1st to last? Have you ever seen the night race at Richmond or Bristol? Dude, I've been to CART races, Detriot Grand Prix, motocross and boat races. NOTHING is as exciting as the beating and banging of a good stock car race. Well, for me, at least.

I aint trying to change your mind. Just trying to help you understand that it is MORE than just cars driving in circles.

That's like saying Stevie Ray Vaughn "made some noise" Yea, it's kinda true but, to the guitar lover, it's sweet. sweet music!
 

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I eat my R1
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Yes I have been to a NASCAR race and it is dump as hell watching a bunch of guys ride in circles. Also if you think that NASCAR is harder to setup than F1 cars then you know nothing about racing. Also F1 cars pull more G’s in the turns, in braking and in accelerating that’s way they have fatter tires. You say the NASCAR have small tires maybe because they have a huge ass banked turn to help them get around the dam track. Ever think of that? Then you make it sound like that all NASCAR drivers are big studs because they get dehydrated behind the wheel. Anyone that races or plays a sport gets dehydrated. So don’t make it sound like it a big thing. I used race mountain bikes and road bike and at the end of the race everyone is dehydrated. I understand your love for NASCAR but don’t try to change everyone’s mind about it. NASCAR is the main reason why we have such ****y racetrack in America. If we had some good road courses we would be able to see some cool racing like 500 GP’s and F1 races. By the way if you like mountain biking you should try some downhill racing. I did a few races this year at Big Bear and wow is that a rush. I had to give up the cross-country stuff. Man it’s just to dam hard to stay in shape and have a full time job. I attached a pic of me doing a small jump at this place I practice my jumping on my downhill bike.
 
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I do not get dehydrated in my 1/2 liters drink sport class (beer).

Anyhow, nascar and also CART is for me like modeltrains runnings in ovals. I find it boring to watch, and so I do my model business quite different.

And regarding motorcycles: I like fast and crooked tracks. The Oval of Continental Tire and Rubber in Jeversen is boring as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Don't ya just love a good debate???

You said, "If you compare NASCAR against any other driving sport will you see that NASCAR just sucks."


Then I said, "I aint trying to change your mind. Just trying to help you understand that it is MORE than just cars driving in circles."


Then you said, "I understand your love for NASCAR but don?t try to change everyone?s mind about it."


Uhhh, I'm not. Yet, in your previous statement, you flat out tell me that I will see that NASCAR just sucks. You basicaly told me not to do what you just did, which was a suggestion that would change my mind about it :)


In fact, I was only letting people know how much more gores into it. I never took anything away from other motorsports and I even mentioned a few in a positive light. I have seen many different types of races in person.

I know that every sport sees exhaustion and the likes. It's just that I feel racers have it tougher because they can't be called to the sidelines for IV's. Also, the banking on the tracks may help the cars run on them, but the pressure from it is Hell on tires. Add the camber setting and you have a tire that has even less contact on the straights but still bearing the same weight. Dude, I never said NASCAR was the hardest setup in motorsports. It's just that my rant concerns NASCAR so that is what I talked about. I don't take anything away from other motorsports. I like 'em all!

Hey, man, I don't belong at this board but I can tell you this: There are NASCAR fans, CART fans, F1 fans.... and there are racing fans. I guess I'm a racing fan. I have just as much fun at a local 1/4 mile watching the 4 cylinders have at it as I do watching the Hydroplanes on the Detroit River. I'm a simple man but the advantage there is that I'm easily amused LOL!!!

As far as the biking, I know exactly what you mean by the full time job. I am a designer at General Motors and I go to school at night. Plus, I have to load my bike on the truck and drive about 20 miles for a decent trail and about 40 for a real good one. Tough to get out enough. I have tinkered with enough trails to know that downhill is not for me, although I respect those guys who do it. What a rush it must be! Nope, I'm just your average weekend warrior with a knack for technical riding. This 220 lb 34 year-old gets around rather well :) I should do downhill. My weight alone just might be an advantage LOL!!! Still, with a wife, kid, car payments, house payments, travel trailer..... I can't afford to break my neck, which I probably would. I'll stick with the roller coaster trails :)

By the way, sweet bike and cool pic! I ride a Schwinn Homegrown hardtail myself.
 

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Nightmare About to Come True
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You are a designer at GM? I am an auto repair shop owner so if you don't mind bring some of those engineers down here to Houston as I would like to have a few words with them on how the hell they expect people to work on some of this crap :D :D :D :p
 

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I eat my R1
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Re: Don't ya just love a good debate???

Nick_in_MI said:
You said, "If you compare NASCAR against any other driving sport will you see that NASCAR just sucks."


Then I said, "I aint trying to change your mind. Just trying to help you understand that it is MORE than just cars driving in circles."


Then you said, "I understand your love for NASCAR but don?t try to change everyone?s mind about it."


Uhhh, I'm not. Yet, in your previous statement, you flat out tell me that I will see that NASCAR just sucks. You basicaly told me not to do what you just did, which was a suggestion that would change my mind about it :)
I was just stating my opinion that is sucks. But that's what I think. If you like it, which you do, then that's cool. I was just saying when I went to the race I was board as hell.

You should give downhill a try you would love it. Just ride at a pace that you feel good about and you will be ok. I have had some big crashes but nothing that would break my neck. Do you have any good hills over there to ride down? Once you do it you wont want to stop.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
:D

LOL @ Twisted!! Hey, is it any diffferent with Ford or Chrysler?

I hear ya. Believe it or not, there is a method to the madness. What it is I don't know, but that's what they tell me.

R1, I am not familiar with any runs that would suit an avid downhiller, but they do hold Mountain bike races at some of the ski resorts. Actually, were doing a ride next week in Boyne. It's actually a road ride for about 2000 party animals, but us guys ride the trails on Boyne mountain. Mountain biking after a night of Jello shots, Lemon drops, Labatt and 2 hours of sleep. I'll assume you've been there also. Oh well, it's only twice a year. At Boyne, you can run your bike down the slope too, but it is basically a straight run without definitive trails or markings. One of the main reasons I doubt I will ever get too into downhill has to do with money and my personal weight. My Schwinn wouldn't take the pounding that my frame would put it through on excessive runs and I won't be looking to purchase another bike for it either.

However, I do enjoy a good run when the trail goes south for a spell. If you ever get up to Michigan, you wouldn't be making a mistake in bringing the bike. There is plenty here for you to have fun on. Pontiac lake, Highland Rec, Potowatomee (probably the toughest in Michigan). The latter two have enough speed on the downhills for your riding style.

As far as the NASACR deal, you're wrong. Just kidding. To each his own. Besides, you probably still have all your teeth, so you wouldn't fit in anyway :D

Once again, didn't mean to crash your site. I just enjoy a good debate. This one ended rather peacefully. Over at the TR boards, it can get ugly with a few instigators. Come on over sometime. "www.thatsracin.com" go to "FORUMS" on the left of the main page, then "Stock car forum"

Plenty of racing fans of most styles there. Plenty of idiots too. Ignore 'em.
 

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Agreed ! Good thread . But I still think roadracing and motocross are MUCH more exciting . There are people on here with over 1000 posts who havent typed as many words as you have in 5 posts ! :lol :thumbup :lol
 

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Pops
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dude! you're a designer at GM? i hope you're not responsible for any of the shat they've been putting out the past 20 years.

:ugh
 

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Bulldogger
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personally i find lawnmower racing more intriguing than nascar.

nascar is like alot of sports in the fact that it sucks to watch, but looks like it might be fun to do. to each their own.
 

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Swedie said:
I for one find it hard watching NASCAR .. as the cars just go round and round .. with no action. That's when I change channel to cartoon or something more fun. :rolleyes:
I guess you hate everything American...huh?
 

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Nick,

Your wasting your time trying to explain it, especially in the R1 forum. I must at admitt I've watched Nascar racing, but this was usually after an all nighter and I was in my jacuzzi with a hangover trying to recooperate.

I think most people here are pissed off that they don't show any "speeeeeeeeeeeedbike racing", and only the cars. But then again we are the minority. Advertising is what makes TV go around and obviously the "speeeeeeeeeedbike racing" sponsors suck.

All in all I hear what your saying and I do appreciate it, but your not going to win any fans here... Sorry....:no
 
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