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My R1 serves my needs
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36 Posts
..
Why do you want to turn that off?

What is the issue?..
I am going to Germany this weekend and we always fuel up with 102 Octane.
On a some occasions,i have noticed that riding with your map (which is awesome) i sometime get a little hesitation or "thud" if you will.

I expected that the accel enrichment acts as a "tip in" fuel response to compensate the moment from complete throttle shutoff to instant WOT.
This behaviour is only on 102 Octane.
Here in the Netherlands we drive 98 Octane it doesn't happen.

Could it be that the timing is so tightly retarted that i get knock?

Either way, i will flash it and see if it makes a difference.
I am off.
Have a great holiday weekend everyone!
 

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Astronomer not Astrologer
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10,413 Posts
Hard to understand why more octane would give you a hesitation.

We are using 97 ron 93aki here in the US.

I bet you will see less performance, though I am pretty sure it is just a copy paste from the 12-14 stock image. The 09-11 didn't have that enabled in the stock image. Just saying that I haven't fiddled with it much.
 

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Tad my friend, I have to applaud your diligence with this FT thread. Looks like you have came a LONG way with that map since we broke it out in '13. I haven't been on here in quite a while(work, kids & life in general) but my '12 is still running like a raped ape on the original '12 Final map with a couple of tweeks here and there. I was reading back through all the posts in this thread and I never seen your question about the settings on the cam degree. The guy that did mine set them at 107 IN & 104 EX. Mine was his first RN22 and those settings were recommended to him by another engine builder. Stock settings were 105 In & 105 Ex I believe. It wasn't much of a change but it seemed to work well. I'm going to have to try out the latest and greatest you have developed one day. Anyways, keep up the good work brother!!
 

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My R1 serves my needs
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36 Posts
Hard to understand why more octane would give you a hesitation.

We are using 97 ron 93aki here in the US.

I bet you will see less performance, though I am pretty sure it is just a copy paste from the 12-14 stock image. The 09-11 didn't have that enabled in the stock image. Just saying that I haven't fiddled with it much.

Problem no longer occured with the accel back to 0.
Checked air filter and chanced spark plugs about 2000 miles ago.
 

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Astronomer not Astrologer
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10,413 Posts
Guess it was a tick rich with that fuel. We have 10% ethanol in our fuel here, so that could make sense.
 

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My R1 eats tyres
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Octaine Ratings

Just to clear things up so you are comparing apples to apples:

In Europe, the octane rating on the pump is simply the RON figure. America, by contrast, uses the average of the RON and the MON figures, called the AKI (anti-knock index). Thus, 97 octane “super unleaded” in Britain is roughly equivalent to 91 octane premium in the United States.

Done some research on this because I wanted to try out your ignition maps. Lots of conflicting stuff from "experts" on the forums but not much info from the oil companies.

Have decided that your maps should be ok over here but will use 99RON from Shell stations just to be on the safe side.

Just chipped in to help!

TAD, Another question: Which version of the R1 do you have to do the Maps?
I have an 09 R1 with a BSB spec engine, produces between 180 - 200 RWBHP depending on the dyno, temp etc. I have just put your B Throttle map into the bike and was wondering if you have the bike with traction control.
 

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My R1 serves my needs
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36 Posts
Just to clear things up so you are comparing apples to apples:

...America, by contrast, uses the average of the RON and the MON figures, called the AKI (anti-knock index). Thus, 97 octane “super unleaded” in Britain is roughly equivalent to 91 octane premium in the United States.

Done some research on this because I wanted to try out your ignition maps. Lots of conflicting stuff from "experts" on the forums but not much info from the oil companies.

Have decided that your maps should be ok over here but will use 99RON from Shell stations just to be on the safe side.
My comments were based on the fuel in Germany.
102 Octane has 0% ethanol in it.
Ethanol alters the burn characteristics.
Shell admitted that, untill recentely, their 98 (RON) did not have the octane number that was adverstised, but was stuck between 96 and 97 Octane.
Compate this with BP's 98 Ultimate octane number varying from 97 tot 98,4 octane.
I am not sure if this was the same deal in Brittain but, i was talking about the fuel quality in Germany.

This leaves me kind of curious to your statement. Do you have any workedout form, or can you backup your research claims that seperates your opinion to be a fact?

Always intrested in supported claims.
 

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My R1 eats tyres
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16 Posts
My comments were based on the fuel in Germany.
102 Octane has 0% ethanol in it.
Ethanol alters the burn characteristics.
Shell admitted that, untill recentely, their 98 (RON) did not have the octane number that was adverstised, but was stuck between 96 and 97 Octane.
Compate this with BP's 98 Ultimate octane number varying from 97 tot 98,4 octane.
I am not sure if this was the same deal in Brittain but, i was talking about the fuel quality in Germany.

This leaves me kind of curious to your statement. Do you have any workedout form, or can you backup your research claims that seperates your opinion to be a fact?

Always intrested in supported claims.
Not much to back it up, same as you. Like I said the oil companies don't give much info and that is what you need to make an informed choice. The politicians and oil companies push ethanol on to us but cover up the negatives, this leaves us with "experts" on forums as I also said and not many people have the resources to properly analyse fuel.
You are lucky to be running 0% ethanol, would like to be running my old two strokes on it even if it's just to stop the insides of the tanks rusting.

Tried out TAD's ignition maps today and was surprised at how much difference they made to my bike, was looking to get more top end as I always felt my engine softened up a bit too early but the maps made the range between 7000 and 10,000 much more forceful. Not claiming to be an "expert" on the maps just saying what I feel on the road with my fuel, fuel maps and my engine, you may feel something else.
 

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My R1 serves my needs
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36 Posts
Not much to back it up, same as you. Like I said the oil companies don't give much info and that is what you need to make an informed choice.


The politicians and oil companies push ethanol on to us but cover up the negatives, this leaves us with "experts" on forums as I also said and not many people have the resources to properly analyse fuel.


You are lucky to be running 0% ethanol, would like to be running my old two strokes on it even if it's just to stop the insides of the tanks rusting.

Tried out TAD's ignition maps today and was surprised at how much difference they made to my bike, was looking to get more top end as I always felt my engine softened up a bit too early but the maps made the range between 7000 and 10,000 much more forceful.


Not claiming to be an "expert" on the maps just saying what I feel on the road with my fuel, fuel maps and my engine, you may feel something else.
I am not sure why you are addressing me in this tone but this will be my final response because this has nothing to do with this topic.


"Not much to back it up, same as you":

I never stated or claimed numbers?
I said that i had hesitation based on the fuel in Germany. Nothing else.
You want facts? Translate Dutch:
https://www.autoblog.nl/nieuws/yes-shell-v-power-heeft-nu-octaangetal-98-109427

"The politicians and oil..."
Again, i don't know why you started a political argument to undermine octane/ethanol numbers.
Everyone has ethanol in their pump gas, i never claimed we didn't have ethanol in our pump fuel.
Our BP 98 ultimate has probably around 5% ethanol in it.


"Tried out TAD's ignition maps today"
Did you mean you were running his maps without his advance/retarding timings?
If so, in his notes he specifically states not to alter his fueling or timings.
His timing is spot on for his fueling and is not designed to be applied outside his mapping.

Aside from the timings, your powerband is between 7k and up, so this is the most logical spot where you will notice most improvements (since you run the powerband on the circuit, as the engine was designed to do)

"Not claiming to be an "expert" on the maps just saying what I feel"
You claimed you did research which you can't backup aside from a butt dyno...
I asked if you can submit your findings/research since i am genuinely interested in facts.
Humans are not able to sense differences in HP reliably since memory, sensory and sensitivity are personal and not objective.
 

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Astronomer not Astrologer
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10,413 Posts
If you use fuel with less than 10% ethanol, then your mixture will be rich as I turned it for 10% ethanol.
 
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