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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Today I bought the current issue of MOTORRAD, the biggest german bike mag.
After PS, they also went to Spain to test the new liter bikes together with the GSX-R, Duc 999S and RSV1000 Factory.
I'll post more tonight, just a few points up front:

ZX 10 was measured to be strongest (165hp at clutch). The dyno curve between 2000 rpm and 9000 rpm of all the bikes EXCEPT the R1 was allmost identical, with the ZX10 having an advantage beyond 9000. GSX-R and CBR were completely identical to the top.
Now the fun part: The R1 had less peak HP than the CBR and through the whole band was below all the others. They measured 160hp at the clutch on a Dynojet 150 (inertia drum, isn't it? -> :bs, inertia drums don't give comparable results because inertia or rear wheel goes into equation and influences the result)

Now just how does this match to the earlier comparison by PS, when R1 and ZX10 were on par and at a higher rev level than the others (what makes sense)?
;-) I start to doubt if these journalists really know what they are doing...

Or, more interesting, what version of the new R1 they used to measure...

I'll post some more info in a few hours, after having had time to scan some stuff.
 

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And one thing I don't understand : we read everywhere that the Kawi is more powerfull, better handling, bla bla bla ...but as far as I know, it is not on sale yet ! So what are those virtual machines they are all testing ??? Pre-prod ?
 

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Juerg said:
Today I bought the current issue of MOTORRAD, the biggest german bike mag.
After PS, they also went to Spain to test the new liter bikes together with the GSX-R, Duc 999S and RSV1000 Factory.
I'll post more tonight, just a few points up front:

ZX 10 was measured to be strongest (165hp at clutch). The dyno curve between 2000 rpm and 9000 rpm of all the bikes EXCEPT the R1 was allmost identical, with the ZX10 having an advantage beyond 9000. GSX-R and CBR were completely identical to the top.
Now the fun part: The R1 had less peak HP than the CBR and through the whole band was below all the others. They measured 160hp at the clutch on a Dynojet 150 (inertia drum, isn't it? -> :bs, inertia drums don't give comparable results because inertia or rear wheel goes into equation and influences the result)

Now just how does this match to the earlier comparison by PS, when R1 and ZX10 were on par and at a higher rev level than the others (what makes sense)?
;-) I start to doubt if these journalists really know what they are doing...

Or, more interesting, what version of the new R1 they used to measure...

I'll post some more info in a few hours, after having had time to scan some stuff.

Guess what. I'll agree with you on this.
:riding
 

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**** the test. Its absolutly shit.
And the tester Markus Barth drives 2004
in the IDM (Internationale Deutsche Meisterschaft)
the ZX 10 , after he not taken by Yamaha.
He also works for "Motorrad"
In the whole Europe the R1 is faster on racetracke
and has more Power.

many greetings Ede
 

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BTW - Stefan Nebel won the IDM Miesterchaft (Chapionship) in
2003 on a Gixxer 3K....

Guess what he is riding this season in 2004...

Yamaha R1'04 :D

We will see what he can do on the Kaw real
soon...:butt
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
ok, as promised a short summary of that MOTORRAD Test.
EdenR1 may be right with his remark...

OK, Motorrad tested the bikes on Cartagena race track in Spain.

The ZX10 was almost unrideable on bumpy spanish roads because its suspension is rock-hard. At high speed the ZX10 is handling almost like a 600 but still stable.
Bomb of a motor, tire screaming for mercy, bla bla bla....

Yamaha: Very comfortable, relaxed riding position (compare to results in box where the unrideable ZX10 gets the same points as the R1 :( )

Very good brakes (compare to PS who claimed the brakes are bad).
Unlike ZX10 the R1 needs high RPM (hm, dynos I saw so far tell a different story).
EFI reacts with a short delay what makes it difficult to find the limits at the exit of a curve. The suggest to shift gears early because the motor isn't really performing beyond 12500.
Still a small tendency of running wide.

Honda: Typical Honda, very unspectacular but fast. Handling like the 600. Rather soft suspension with limited potential on the track.

Suzuki: Obvious that G1K is former generation, fat compared to new bikes. Looses ground in stability and handling. Motor still good. Brakes fade on track. Rear shock not up to track requirements (not enough dampening)

Italians.. ok I skip this, no challenge.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Rows are (top down)
Usability of performance
Characteristics of engine on track
Shifting
Stability
Suspension Setup
Ground clearance
Handling
Brakes
Riding position sport
Lap times

Note rating of usability of motor performance (no comment)
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Measurement results (now it is getting interesting / ridiculous)

Table (top down)
Accelleration
Roll-on last gear
Speedometer error
Fuel consumption
max range
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
They mention that the superiority of the ZX10 is even bigger than the graph is showing.
Note, they test the R1 with less hp than the CBR...
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Ok, some more fun, the summary in 2 parts.
Part 1
Engine (speed, accelleration, roll-on, control, power delivery, start of engine, clutch, shifting, gearing, top gear)
Suspension(handling, stability in curves, precision, running straight, setup solo, setup 2 person)
Safety (sensibility of brake, performance of brake, brake with 2 pers., Anti lock brake, ground clearance curves, ground clearance straight, shimmy, stability on brake, braking in curve (momentum), headlights, sight )
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Part 2
Every day (equipment, serviceability, trip range, max. load, handling)
Comfort ( seat driver, seat passenger, wind protection, smoothness of motor)
Costs/environment (warranty, built quality, fuel consumption road, maintainance costs, pollution, money vs. value)
 

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Those German Mag results are 100% consistent with the Sportrider Dynos for the 3 new liter bikes and comparing them to the GSXR 1000.

The new R1 appears to be designed with a heavy focus on the track where a super tall 1st gear is usable and where you can keep the bike in the 10,000-13,000 rpm range.

Even the test rides have been consistent with this story.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
My comments...
- What CBR did they test (i.m.h.o. the CBR final spec has not yet been seen)
- dito for ZX10
- Either that R1 was ill or the Euro version is significantly less performant than the US version or....? (was this an official R1 or some pre-production bike and if it was the second, was it a bike that is meant to be tested?)

After all, credibility of Motorrad has suffered heavily in my eyes. Either you test production bikes (then this test would not have happened yet) or you are testing official pre-production bikes.
This here seems to be kind of a strange mixture.
If the stocksport R1 was not so fast on the track I'd rather be tempted to believe, but on track the ZX10 so far could not even get close to the R1. How comes if the bike is so great? ;)

Let's wait what other mags tell us.
So far Motorrad was known for "Honda glasses", probably due to the test riders, this time some other bias was on board as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Those German Mag results are 100% consistent with the Sportrider Dynos
Not really!
Peak performance according to sport rider:
ZX10 = 162, R1 = 158, CBR 153
Motorrad says:
ZX10 = 168, R1 = 160, CBR = 161 (R1 is down because this is performance at the clutch)

Now performance at 8000 RPM

ZX10 = 115
R1 = 115
CBR = 110
According to Motorrad
ZX10 =120
R1=110
CBR=120
(again R1 down, all others up...)

Compare also to the PS dyno chart. The differences are to big to be easily explained!
 

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Juerg:

I was referring to the general trend of the riding impressions and dynos--from all sources.

The R1 gets absolutely crushed on the dynos until about 11k rpms by the Gxsr 1000, cbr1000rr and ZX10 (which also gets the R1 up top). This is consistent with the type of engine (bore and stroke) chosen by Yamaha. That power delivery, coupled with the extra long first gear, may make the bike more of a track specialist, rather than king of the streets and a track weapon.

Regardless of these tests, I expect the Dealers to sell the R1s like hot cakes--the biggest demand at my local dealer that handles all 3 of the new bikes is for the R1. It does look great! I also understand it is off to a great start in superstock racing.

I look forward to the shootouts!
 

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Loved reading this thread,but f**k knows what your all on about:lol

However far to many guys will trumpet the R1 regardless.Go on a Honda forum they'll do the same about there bike and the same on a gixxer forum and kwak bla bla bla.:rant
 

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What a bunch of :bs

They give the Kawi equal or better marks for the tranny and shifting when we all know the Kawi had a $hit gearbox.

Total BS test, no such thing as a production CBR or ZX-10.

.......... actually, Cycle World USA got ahold of a supposed production CBR.......... 145rwhp.
 

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Greg Crowe said:
What a bunch of :bs

They give the Kawi equal or better marks for the tranny and shifting when we all know the Kawi had a $hit gearbox.

Total BS test, no such thing as a production CBR or ZX-10.

.......... actually, Cycle World USA got ahold of a supposed production CBR.......... 145rwhp.
Boy the more results that appear against the r1 the more BS flags that fly i tell ya. I wonder if the R1 had been superior to the other brands in one area or many areas in the MANY tests so far you would see nothing but ...'yeah the R1 kicks ass and is the king, blah, blah, blah!! no matter how bad it may have been.

Let me see if i can get the factual point across to those nonbelievers that brand X bike can and is better than the 04 R1.....geez.

The bikes tested @ Homestead and other places a couple of months ago were in fact PRE-PRODUCTION bikes with tranny issues, but the shit gearbox as you refer to it has been addressed therefore remedied for the actual production models which are available and have been used by Sportrider, Motorrad and MO to name a few so YES they are out there being ridden not only by journos but KMC employees on the street.

Juerg

Its quite obvious your not ever going to be happy or believe in whomever does the actual dyno test on what ever brand X dyno in whatever country with whomever rides the bikes can't ride mentality until the R1 is quoted as the best......so this is just for you Juerg......
The R1 has just trounced the other 3 leading liter bikes for 04 in a top secrect underground test facility in the pacific ocean.:scared

BD
 
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