Yamaha R1 Forum: YZF-R1 Forums banner

21 - 32 of 32 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
425 Posts
I think so too, but I am not an expert. Defo not a Whole tooth off.
 

·
kickin' at the darkness
Joined
·
10,307 Posts
AFAIK pics are correct, as long as you can button it all up that way..

the marks are barely visible when looking at the head from it side, at plain level. They're not 'underneath' the horizon of the head surface.

Unfortunately because of the pandemic and restrictions up here we pretty much boxed everything up till this coming winter. i cant be much help on finer detail till we get to it ourselves.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sixtwosix

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Noo good i think i may take bike to proper garage, my bad that i didnt Mark the chain, i only Got time on weekends so yesterday another fail and after i put everythink back together still no clearance gap.. Could my chain be streched? Once i master this cams i would like to make a video tutorial as cant find non on the web
 

·
kickin' at the darkness
Joined
·
10,307 Posts
i wont be re-using the stock chain.. doing a full refresh so anything that has wear / tear of any
substantial form, its a gonner. Yes, depending on mileage, the chain most likely has some
stretching from when it was brand new. Hence why i'm replacing mine :D
 
  • Like
Reactions: Demo

·
Registered
Joined
·
114 Posts
my bad that i didnt Mark the chain
Marking the chain isn't necessary. It's just a lazy/clever man's way of making sure he lines everything up without having to check up on anything else. It's entirely possible to defeat this trick if someone were to rotate the crankshaft between your camshaft removal and reinstallation. If your bottom K mark is correct and your top cap marks are correct, you should be okay for reassembly, unless the marks are completely off. Your bike was running before your attempt at the valve adjustment, so I doubt this is the case.
Could my chain be streched?
Maybe, but if it was stretched, the chain tensioner would catch most of it and you'd be a slight alignment off. You wouldn't be registering 0 clearances on everything. The timing chain check can be found on Page 5-18 and 5-19. You can probably make an evaluation based on the information presented there, but if you want to no-brain it, just replace the chain. The GSX-R I worked on for its first valve adjustment had almost 100k miles (my favorite 3 words: not. my. bike.) We didn't bother with replacing the chain and it was fine. YMMV.

Quick sanity checks:
  1. Did you disconnect any of the gears from the shafts during this entire operation that would destroy your frame of reference as to where exactly the piston/camshaft position is?
  2. For the picture you uploaded last week with the camshafts and the chain, was the chain front of the bike (exhaust side of the cams) tight and the back of the bike (intake side) loose? The exhaust side is supposed to be tight, so if it wasn't, that could be why the cam marking rotated below the surface.
  3. The no clearance gap, is that on all cylinders? If you're in alignment (K mark and punch marks), have you done the actual rotation of 105 degrees before checking #1? Page 3-7
 

·
Registered
'08 r1
Joined
·
1,028 Posts
If you have no valve clearance, your measurements were wrong. The cam chain has nothing to do with the valve clearance. If the lobes are at 10 and 2 you can check valve clearance on that cylinder. If you are on the acceleration ramp or in the valve duration, you won't have valve clearance because the cam lobe is engaged with the bucket. If you are at 10 and 2 and have 0 clearance, you have the wrong shim installed.

After you measure your valve lash and replace your shims, when you reinstall everything, after you get your marks lined up, spin the motor through a few revolutions by hand. This insures proper piston to valve clearance and you can verify the timing marks with tension on the cam chain.

Or, take it to a garage. That seems to be where this is going anyhow.

Again, good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Ws
Marking the chain isn't necessary. It's just a lazy/clever man's way of making sure he lines everything up without having to check up on anything else. It's entirely possible to defeat this trick if someone were to rotate the crankshaft between your camshaft removal and reinstallation. If your bottom K mark is correct and your top cap marks are correct, you should be okay for reassembly, unless the marks are completely off. Your bike was running before your attempt at the valve adjustment, so I doubt this is the case.

Maybe, but if it was stretched, the chain tensioner would catch most of it and you'd be a slight alignment off. You wouldn't be registering 0 clearances on everything. The timing chain check can be found on Page 5-18 and 5-19. You can probably make an evaluation based on the information presented there, but if you want to no-brain it, just replace the chain. The GSX-R I worked on for its first valve adjustment had almost 100k miles (my favorite 3 words: not. my. bike.) We didn't bother with replacing the chain and it was fine. YMMV.

Quick sanity checks:
  1. Did you disconnect any of the gears from the shafts during this entire operation that would destroy your frame of reference as to where exactly the piston/camshaft position is?
  2. For the picture you uploaded last week with the camshafts and the chain, was the chain front of the bike (exhaust side of the cams) tight and the back of the bike (intake side) loose? The exhaust side is supposed to be tight, so if it wasn't, that could be why the cam marking rotated below the surface.
  3. The no clearance gap, is that on all cylinders? If you're in alignment (K mark and punch marks), have you done the actual rotation of 105 degrees before checking #1? Page 3-7

1. NO

2.Yes, + zip ties but it becomes loosen in most attempts after tightening and dot is going down too i need to do photos and show you, you mean like really tight?

3. Yes K Mark with surface then 105 to sensor. No gap on all, very tiny

SO i guess im doing ex side wrong but i dont see different possition for ex Cam once It is in its place as 4 mid lobes are facing down so only so slight movement betwen them with chain on.
Intake side sits nice.

Anyway I'll start from the beginning and maybe someone will guide me, I'll take more Pictures. On different forum 1 guy told me that must be 30 pins from ex to in every time i assembly its 30 pins

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
Discussion Starter · #28 ·
If you have no valve clearance, your measurements were wrong. The cam chain has nothing to do with the valve clearance. If the lobes are at 10 and 2 you can check valve clearance on that cylinder. If you are on the acceleration ramp or in the valve duration, you won't have valve clearance because the cam lobe is engaged with the bucket. If you are at 10 and 2 and have 0 clearance, you have the wrong shim installed.

After you measure your valve lash and replace your shims, when you reinstall everything, after you get your marks lined up, spin the motor through a few revolutions by hand. This insures proper piston to valve clearance and you can verify the timing marks with tension on the cam chain.

Or, take it to a garage. That seems to be where this is going anyhow.

Again, good luck.

Respect man, ill try without chain
 

·
Registered
'08 r1
Joined
·
1,028 Posts
Respect man, ill try without chain
Bro, you need the chain to be able to roll the cams. No reason at all to remove the chain. Just check your valve clearance with the cam lobes at 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock. If I were in the in Britain, I'd just come by and show you. It really ain't this hard, I promise. Somewhere along the line, something got fudged. If I knew where I'd tell you.

Just measure your valve clearance correctly, install the right shims and verify your timing. You are so close yet so far away.

:confused:

Edit: I'm not saying you can't index the cams without the cam chain in place. Yes, you can index them manually with a tool, but why would you do that, then you have to remove the cams again to install the chain. Why do it 3 times when you can do it twice and not have to use a clutch tool to index the cam.
 

·
kickin' at the darkness
Joined
·
10,307 Posts
i just caught up to what the actual discussion is.. valve clearance check-ups can be cone
w/out the chain in place, you can manually rotate the cams with a tool. Thats how we
checked mine. if you're getting no clearance at all that sounds very odd, it would mean
they're all stupid tight and you'd likely not even be able to start the bike in the 1st place.

whatever method you use to test for valve clearance, it sounds like you're doing it wrong.

on 1st glance of the thread, thought you were having a hard time with timing marks, etc.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Demo

·
Registered
Joined
·
114 Posts
2.Yes, + zip ties but it becomes loosen in most attempts after tightening and dot is going down too i need to do photos and show you, you mean like really tight?
If you're using the chain to rotate the cams like most of us lazy guys, yeah, it should be taut.

Are you checking the clearances right when you line up the K mark or are you doing it after rotating the first 105 degrees before checking the clearance at piston 1? I think the easiest way is if you line this entire thing up on Discord and livestream it from your phone while some other forum members with enough free time on their hands watch you do the job. It's not rocket science or an incredibly hard job. As long as you put in the correct sized tappets, or thinnest sized tappets and got your measurements for calculating the right sized tappets, you should be able to get a reading at one of the cylinders for each rotation you make presuming you followed the angles listed in the service manual. If memory serves me right, I don't believe any of the cylinders are at TDC if you have the K mark lined up.
 

·
kickin' at the darkness
Joined
·
10,307 Posts
If you're using the chain to rotate the cams like most of us lazy guys, yeah, it should be taut.
agreed.. my head is no where near the rest of the engine.. its the only part the
machinist needed to do his magic.

there are proper tools for the job.. I purchased a 'generic' version and modded to work for our needs..
 
21 - 32 of 32 Posts
Top