[Nucking Futs]

In a recent post you guys were talking about guys like Rainey and Swantz and Gardner and Roberts. How good were these races back then? Everybody talks about how close the finishes were and how these guys are the kings. It seems like GP and SBK racing now the races are not as thrilling and captivating as it was back then. What do you guys think, better now or then?

 

[El Duca]

Better then !!
Get some videos to believe it!

 

[Olddog]

The depth and quality of the field

Track records are being shattered now, but on the old vid's you can see Lawson, Rainey, Doohan, Gardner, Schwantz and Kocinski, all world gp champs, although johnnies was on a 250 and WSB and Gardner was once, MULTIPLE times champs Doohan, Rainey, Lawson......... and always Schwantz with them duking it out, hammer and tong, race in race out. Schwantz could have won more, but had a win or crash attitude for a couple years to long. Would Rossi be there ( origional line of questioning? IMO, right there )

 

[Nucking Futs]

Do they make video's of those races? what was the best year? It sounds like those where the days, I don't see myself 10 years from now telling my kids about the racing nowadays. But Rossi does kick ass doesn't he? Do you guys think he is as talented as those other guys?

 

[Earache]

I went to the '93 Spanish GP at Jerez, saw Doohan, Schwantz, Rainey and the others. Big difference in the way they ride now and how these guys rode back then.

The main difference is the bikes themselves. Back then, the Honda that Doohan rode was just plain violent. Too much power in a frame that couldn't handle it and riding on tires tha couldn't handle it. There was a fine line between riding fast and slightly out of control and riding fast while being very out of control.

Today's bikes handle better, deliver power in a more managable way and are shod with relativley great tires. Today's riders are rewarded by being smooth and keeping corner speeds up. Yesterday's riders were hanging on for dear life, power sliding through all of the corners to square them off.

Watch Doohan on some old video's HUGE powerslides into and out of corners, leaving monster sized ******* out of every corner. Same with Schwantz and to a lesser extent Rainey. These guys had balls! But I think today's riders are smarter ... they have to be in order to understand more complex bikes and to be able to relate their desires to thir engineers.

Look at the injuries in the past - major reconstructve surgery on riders was not uncommon. Doohan walks funny as a result of it as does Schwantz. Rainey no longer walks at all.

Those bikes were beasts to ride.

Eric

 

[Smoken Joe]

Yea the old GP racing was somthing else Schwantz is my hero. Honda may have spent 3 times what everyone else combined did but it did not garente the victory. It was just unbelevable what they did with tire and suspention technology as it was back then. No one rides on the edge like that today except maby Gobert. Sometimes the GP racing seems like more of a corprate pissing contest than a real race.

 

[R1ZOOM]

Gobert definitely has a win or crash attitude. He is awesome...when he finishes. I love to watch him but get irritated because just when he starts really getting ahead, as in Supersport last year, he crashes out and messes up his chances. Maybe Yamaha needs to put him just riding Superbike so he can master it and not have to go back and forth so much. Regardless, he is one of the most fun guys to watch race.

 

[Olddog]

Doohan

I was fortunate to see him at Laguna 4 times. I remember VIVIDLY when he rode the " screamer " motor alongside Gardner for Rothman's, the way he came down the corkscrew
As he crested the rise he would climb as far forword on the tank as he could get, whack the throttle , get it spinning down the hill, and in the middle of the corner whack another gear, still spinning, leaving big *******, heading for Rainey Corner. Most others were coming thru a gear taller, staying out of the power band, overreving it until nearly vertical heading to Rainey, then banging a gear before entry.
Only a stopwatch and section split would tell who was faster thru that section, but he was SPECTACULAR lap after lap
Of course Schwantz was ALWAYS looking like he was riding on the edge every lap............ I just remember being struck by how aggressive Doohan manhandled that thing.
In that Era Honda was known for big HP, hi top speeds, but the poorest handling. Suzuki for possibly the best handling, but weakest motor, and Yamaha was felt by most to be the best overall balanced package. Makes you appreciate Lawson's switch to the evil handling Honda in 89' to win the tiltle after doing it 3 times for Yamaha.

 

[Droog]

The way the bikes were back then, you either went fast or highsided. I mean guys were highsiding all over the place. I remember Schwantz highsiding at Assen......ON A STRAIGHT!!! It was exciting racing and you knew the top three guys would all be remembered as special racers (Doohan, Rainey, Schwantz) Great battles. The bikes had loads of bhp (screamer motors, leaded higher octane fuel) plus they were lighter bikes. To master one of those bikes you were great. But it had an effect on the guys who rode 'em. Mick almost had his leg amputated, Kevin has broke every bone in his body like three times and Wayne's in a wheelchair. But it was the most exciting racing ever, I don't care what the lap times are now or how close the finishing grid is. If 15 guys can run within 2 seconds of each other, it means the bikes are too easy to ride. Long Live the early 90's!

 

[Olddog]

Olddogs video pics

Fortunately I've got every round that I attended on VHS, and a bunch of others I HAD to have.
THE TAPE from that era is ( IMHO ) " Bike GP 91", " Another Rainey Day......." It has major hi lites from all 16 rounds, the camera work is outstanding for the era, and all these legends can be seen at their peak. I give it 4 stars

 

[El Duca]

Olddog,
Do you remember the 2 crashes Doohan had at Laguna? #1 at the corkscrew ( he did it on his ass!!!)
#2 He went straght into the straw bails at the right hander after the corkscrew WOW!!! AWSOME!!


Droog,
YEP! Those were the days. Those were THE racers!!!! I've recorded ALL GP 500cc races since 1989 on VHS tape.

 

[Mashuri]

The ONLY racer today that might have had a prayer in keeping up with those guys would be Rossi. Lawson, Rainey, Schwantz, Doohan, Gardner, Spencer, Roberts Sr...those were REAL riders that had no fear (or sense) whatsoever. Out of them I would rank Lawson as the best who ever ran on 2 wheels. He proved it to me when, after winning the 1988 championship on the smooooth Yamaha, he switched to that uncontrollable beast of a Honda...and won the 1989 championship with it! I remember seeing that monster try to spit Eddie off like a bucking bronco out of every corner exit. Despite the poor-handling Honda, and despite that it forced Lawson out of his smooth riding style, he still managed to win consistently. The other main reason I rank Eddie #1 is because he seems to be the only long-term racer of that era to get out relatively unscathed. This guy, despite racing on the ragged edge (and winning) for so long, very rarely crashed. Doohan can barely walk, Rainey is paralyzed, Schwantz walks a little funny, etc., etc. When you think about it, it almost seems inhuman to accomplish what he has. Man, I miss those days!

 

[Smoken Joe]

Check this out.

 

[Nucking Futs]

Dude that picture is brutal...from the way you guys talk it seems like this happened a lot but these guys would just get back up and ride the bikes time after time! I don't find the motogp tapes very rewarding. They are fun to watch but earlier GP's sound like real racing to me. Whats cool is none of you agree on who the absolute best racer then was, so you know it had to be REALLY close racing...

 

[El Duca]

IT WAS ! OH HOW IT WAS !!

 

[Earache]

They were fantastic races to watch. rarely a race went by when someone didn't highside himself to the moon. I'd be very afraid to go to work if my job was to ride one of those monsters.

Today's races are a bit more boring to watch. Which gives credit to the riders for being smoother and the engineers for making better handling bikes.

Having seen recent GP's and older GP's inperson, you can really appreciate how different the bikes are now. The simply don't move around very much like they used to.

Eric

 

[JoeBee]

bikes in motogp today are definitely easier to ride, taking nothing away from rossi he is a
great rider and probably would have been in the thick of things back then. i just don't think
he would be as dominate so early in his career. have a feeling motogp will become like formula1
car racing. ferrari(honda) spends somuch money on development they are ahead of the game
even before they start the season. back in the 80's i think yamaha and suzuki had a bigger
budget to compete in gp racing. my opinion is they both are trying to build their budgets back up
by not spending much money on superbike racing or ama racing(etc.). hopefully the racing will
get closer and more talent moves into gp and not riders with big bucks attached to their name
but no talent.thanx for listening.----joe

 

[Olddog]

Something to watch for

Is exactly WHAT is Honda going to do with Nickey hayden should he continue on and win the AMA title. I can't imagine them squandering his talent on the soon to be restrictor plate WSB ( or the " let's let the big inline 4's in, but still come up with a formula that favors the twins " series ). My guess is Hayden on the V-5 next season................... I think it would be great for the sport, and I also agree that at this point, if there aren't more talented riders put on the V-5 it WILL stay as boring as F-1

 

[Earache]

So I say to Mick, "Those newer riders are all wankers" and he says "leave me alone"

Eric & Mick - Jerez, Spain - 1993

 

[Olddog]

Neat Pic

Mick was pretty young then I've got a picture of my kid getting a poster signed by Mick when my boy was 10. Got one with him and Schwantz too at that age. At Sears ( where Jonah raced in the 250 race ) he spent a few minutes talking to Kevin, who was just strolling the pits. I didn't have my camera, but it would have been a neat shot since Jonah was in his gear when they were talking. Great stuff