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I FEEL THE NEED...FOR SPEED.
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi everyone.
It's been a wile since my rotor assy fails, a common issue on Yamaha R1 2004-08 and fazers as everyone know.
Lucky me it didn't happen on highway at hi speeds, but in traffic.
Anyway the new part is out from Yamaha 2SH814500000, and it seems it fixes this common failure to our bikes.
I'm going to by one this summer, but till then I was curious to see if the rotor assy can be fixed somehow, searching the internet I didn't find anything like "How To" , so I decided to give it a try and fix it my self. :jerkit:

Probably this isn't the smartest thing to do on this type of machines, to mess with their parts but, as Yamaha sell's for almost a decade the same rotor assy with it's manufacturing fault there is probably no safety issue.
The risk? Too High, if the resin won't last long and mesh with the stator we all know the results :flame:
So don't blame me, do it with your own risk, or wait till I give more feedback when mine explodes! :tocoo:

Here we go. (sorry for my English)
Here is the patient, an old dog YZF-R1 2006 black raven, still looks good my precious. :kekekegay:



Here you can see the magnets on the rotor and the pathetic yellow glue Yamaha uses in a small amount,
2 or more magnets have unstuck and scratched from the stator,the rest come off very easily by pressing
slightly with my finger!!! :shake


All the magnets and the black plastic "driver" that keeps them separated, been pulled of the rotor.


Before detach the magnets it is advisable to mark them with a pen because the way they
mounted in the flywheel is north and south poles respectively, like the image shows here...

and before you detach the black plastic you can see there are 2 slots,
It's advisable to mark where the slots fit with metal.(I did it with red pen as you can see below)

Next I cleaned the rotor and the black plastic from any glue residues...



Rotor and the black plastic have been cleared from the old glue and ready to go...


Next step is to clear the 16 magnets and slick with sandpaper...



Here are all the parts cleaned and washed from any residues of oils and filth,

this will help the 2 component power epoxy to stick better.
I use 2 component power epoxy from Pattex with High resistance to oil and water,
can hold 130kg pressure and good enough for temperatures 150c/302f.


Mask gloves and ready to glue some magnets... :boom




First I glue the black plastic "driver" to the rotor.
Then took one magnet at a time, this is a little bit tricky because the magnets
with the glue attached will stick to every metal surface they come close so be careful, they are very powerful.
After a while, here is how the roto
looks with all the parts glued.
Couldn't took photos with gloves and the glue all over. :bash
I fill the gaps between the magnets under the black plastic for better hold.






The rotor has been placed to the engine.
The first measurement with the multimeter gave me a nice 14.4v at idle!!! :eek:wneddance: that means the generator is producing nice power to keep the battery charged.
No strange noises.
Took it for a ride, all the power delivered well, 0-300, all the horses seems to be there...:horse:
I drive it in traffic to get the temp up at 105c where the fans open, to test the resin at high temps, all seems fine. :riding

Well next plan is to reopen the rotor after a few kilometers and inspect it to see how the resin is doing...
Of course there is the option to smooth the power epoxy for better balance the rotor, but i haven't notice any vibrations from the engine.
Another good idea will be to put a round metal part to hold the magnets in place, I'll measure the gap between the stator and magnets next time I reopen it.
keep in touch....:att:

Edit: Image links went down, had to upload from site.
 

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THEONEGTIVR6
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Well looks like I'll be replacing mine as well. Don't want to deal with this unless I knew its long term results.
 

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I FEEL THE NEED...FOR SPEED.
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206 Posts
Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Did 600kil so far with no issue, measure the temp at the generator to be sure that my epoxy resistance is over the engine temps, the oil is approximately 10c lower than the HUD shows, so even at 105c that the fans go on the engine parts would be around 95c. (Of course I did the mod with the fan switch and I never let the engine pass 95c, amazing mod works perfect).
This is too far from the 150c that the resign can hold.
Wish I had more time for riding this time of the year, anyway I did a bike safety with road assistance just to be sure i won't left to wilderness with any help if the rotor fails.

At the foto the HUD shows 85c and the thermo 75c.
 

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THEONEGTIVR6
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ARXAGELOS did you say you have had one fail on you before?? I'm planning to do mine but was wanting to wait till winter. My 04 R1 now has 735 miles on it. I'm wondering if they are known to fail even more n the first 5000 miles?? I'll probably only ride 3,000 miles this summer and am hoping this rotor would hold up for me.
Does anyone have any input on this??
Are they that bad where a few thousand miles is a big risk??
 

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I FEEL THE NEED...FOR SPEED.
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Discussion Starter #7
No one can tell you for sure.
Mine failed at 50.000kil(31.0686mi), I know others with FZ1's that failed at 20.000kil(12427.424mi) even earlier.
Others at 50.000kil (30.000mi) have changed 2 rotors at least.
There are 2 reasons the generator fails, One is when magnets get loose, and the other is from a bad Bearing. A bad bearing will make the rotor come in contact with the coils.
Here in Greece we have a lot of failures and I think this is because the hot climate.
At the gr fazer forum they gather at least 150 failures from FZ1's and R1's and claimed a refund from Yamaha but with no success.
If you think about it you have a 13 years old bike with a common failure to this part, well if I was you, at least I would open and inspect the magnets before I ride the bike and make a bike safety with road assistance.
This the best way to ensure you go with the minimal cost, because if the magnets get loose on a ride at hi speeds, unstuck parts may damage the stator too, even get in your engine crank shaft and you'll need to drop and clean the pan too.
This doubles even triples the cost of repair.
See this video HOW to inspect the rotor.
The only thing this guy is doing wrong is the way he pulled out the generator with a risk of fallen parts in the crank shaft. The right way to pull out the generator is by holding the rotor in place and pull the cover with the stator first.
Jump at this video at 1:54 to see the right way the generator is placed and pulled. (2 persons needed to do it right).
 

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THEONEGTIVR6
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These 2 videos here seem to help me most to know what I'm getting into to install my updated rotor. Thanks.
 

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THEONEGTIVR6
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Did 600kil so far with no issue, measure the temp at the generator to be sure that my epoxy resistance is over the engine temps, the oil is approximately 10c lower than the HUD shows, so even at 105c that the fans go on the engine parts would be around 95c. (Of course I did the mod with the fan switch and I never let the engine pass 95c, amazing mod works perfect).
This is too far from the 150c that the resign can hold.
Wish I had more time for riding this time of the year, anyway I did a bike safety with road assistance just to be sure i won't left to wilderness with any help if the rotor fails.

At the foto the HUD shows 85c and the thermo 75c.
Would love to hear more about the fan mod.
 

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I FEEL THE NEED...FOR SPEED.
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Discussion Starter #11
Ok guys, after one year and 6.000kil I finally found the time to inspect the rotor.
All seems fine, the epoxy is rock stable with no evidence of any damage. The only thing I see is the shitty color the epoxy taken from the engine oil. :laughing:

Anyway I'm leaving it as it is for now and planning to install the new part at winter.
I'm convinced that the epoxy will last long kilometers.
Anyway next inspection at winter, stay tuned with the experiment. :scoots:
 

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THEONEGTIVR6
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Hey thanks for the update, all good infor for anyone who can’t get the new updated part and want to ride.
I ended up getting a used updated rotor from a wrecked bike and installed it. So no more worrying about magnets in my motor. Lol
I lucked out, a guy posted his crash right here on this forum it was a total loss so I pmed him asking if his bike had the updated rotor and it did. Also picked up a speedo correction device.
 

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This is badass! Thanks so much for taking the time to put this together with pics and info. I'm going thru the same issue right now and would much rather try this than pay $350 for a whole new generator assembly only problem is some of my magnets are cracked and or beat so I have to find where to buy those first along w the black plastic driver piece..that is if they even sell or make them anymore.
 

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This is badass! Thanks so much for taking the time to put this together with pics and info. I'm going thru the same issue right now and would much rather try this than pay $350 for a whole new generator assembly only problem is some of my magnets are cracked and or beat so I have to find where to buy those first along w the black plastic driver piece..that is if they even sell or make them anymore.
I bought 2x packs of 10 magnets from E-Bay 40x10x1.5 ..Cost less than £15 inc postage N52 type
 

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I bought 2x packs of 10 magnets from E-Bay 40x10x1.5 ..Cost less than £15 inc postage N52 type
N52, isn't that a rare earth magnets specification? I've had some of the originals in my hand when they fell out, and they aren't rare earth are they?

What I can see happening if you replace with rare earth is a lot of extra generator drag, a lot of extra voltage and a regulator rectifier that struggles to deal with the extra charge they create. I think a like for like replacement is the only way out, unless you use a much smaller rare earth magnet to emulate the same output (now that would be good, as it would reduce weight in the flywheel - I just don't know how you go about matching output to size!)

Bear in mind the standard magnets already give out too much voltage which is why the reg/rec is there to limit the flow. All a rare earth magnet will do is give a higher output that still needs trimming back to the 14v ish needed - it could fry a reg/rec I guess?

Interested to know more about this - it's a good idea, but not sure it's a straightforward replacement.
 

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THEONEGTIVR6
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Very good point I would not use a magnet that has more strength than the ones in it. And a n52 sure will. Plus it will be way more brittle.
 

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N52, isn't that a rare earth magnets specification? I've had some of the originals in my hand when they fell out, and they aren't rare earth are they?

What I can see happening if you replace with rare earth is a lot of extra generator drag, a lot of extra voltage and a regulator rectifier that struggles to deal with the extra charge they create. I think a like for like replacement is the only way out, unless you use a much smaller rare earth magnet to emulate the same output (now that would be good, as it would reduce weight in the flywheel - I just don't know how you go about matching output to size!)

Bear in mind the standard magnets already give out too much voltage which is why the reg/rec is there to limit the flow. All a rare earth magnet will do is give a higher output that still needs trimming back to the 14v ish needed - it could fry a reg/rec I guess?

Interested to know more about this - it's a good idea, but not sure it's a straightforward replacement.
Hi I tried different strength magnets until I found the ones that produced the correct voltage ie N42 produce 12.8 volts and N52 produce 13.8 volts which is as about bang on as I could get. I didn’t know anything about magnet technology so I just googled the hell out of it. I have done many of them now and fingers crossed not one come back.
 

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Hi I tried different strength magnets until I found the ones that produced the correct voltage ie N42 produce 12.8 volts and N52 produce 13.8 volts which is as about bang on as I could get. I didn’t know anything about magnet technology so I just googled the hell out of it. I have done many of them now and fingers crossed not one come back.
Sounds like exactly what was needed already happened with the research you did!

Are you offering a "remagnetting" service commercially? (Is "remagnetting" even a word?!)

I'd be interested in knowing more if you do, and if you work on an exchange basis from fresh flywheels or empty ones that have already lost their magnets. Anyway, good work in any case!
 
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