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worse than the worst
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204 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
ok, here's the problem. i was working on my engine. (thats another post) and after reassembling everything, i was riding and the bike suddenly cut off at a light. never spoke again. i have ran through all the tests ( coil resistance, side stand wire, on off switch. checked connections, harness) and i still cannot prove what is wrong. i dont get any spark at all at the plugs. i was doing various tests at the tci plug and realized something. i don't get any ground or 12 v pulse from the tci at the orange or grey wires during initial turn on, or during cranking. and my resistance tests at the same wires are pretty much like an open between both wires and ground and 12v at all times.

if i have lost you by this point then please dont bother guessing. i need REAL advice here! is there anything that can cause the tci to show an open at the coil input wires besides a bad tci? i have a spare that shows the same thing but i dont know if its bad also or if theres something i'm missing here. PLEASE HELP any electrical gurus.
 

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worse than the worst
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204 Posts
Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
ok update. i had the leads backwards on the tci test. i assume theres a diode in the circuit. so when i reversed the leads, i got about 1400 ohms (key off) and 900 ohms (key on) between orange or grey and ground. still doesnt give me any switched voltage to initiate the spark. and i also noticed that with the wires not attached to the coil i get 12 v from the red/white to ground (key on) but not across the red/white to tci (grey or orange) so the coils are definately not charging.

someone HELP!! is this the tci unit or could it be something else??
 

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Ghostrider Squadron
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9,251 Posts
i think ur talking about computer...CDI box..correct...kinda threw me with TCI thing. starter relay and checked all fuses. so ur saying you dont have any power to coils? is bike turning over..but ur just not getting any spark??
 

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worse than the worst
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204 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
yeah the pickup coil tests out ok. cranks but no spark at all. not even a - signal at the coil.

and actually yamaha uses tci technology not cdi but for some reason people keep calling it a cdi box. sorry for confusing u.

I really want to just buy another box but i don't wan't to shell out that kind of $ if theres something else that can cause this. i'm kinda leaning towards it though.
and if anyone has an extra 4XV-82305 please let me know if u want to get rid of it for a decent price
 

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worse than the worst
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204 Posts
Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
O btw, for anyone thats :dunno ,

CDI is capacitive discharge ignition. a capacitor charges from the stator signal to a couple of hundred volts. and at ignition trigger, fires that voltage at the coil which steps it up to a couple of thousand volts causing the spark. hence Capacitive Discharge Ignition.

TCI is transistior controlled ignition. the box, brain, whatever. supplies a ground to the negative side of the coil. and the run/stop switch + sidestand switch + the clutch lever (depending on gear) and a few other components, completes the 12v path to the positive side of the coil, which charges the coil primary, which in turn charges the coil secondary to a few thousand volts due to induction. at ignition trigger, the box inverts the negative signal to a positive signal for a brief moment. (microseconds) but the inversion causes the coils electrical field to collapse. (discharge) causing the spark.

this inversion is controlled by a transistor inside the box, which recieves the trigger signal from the pickup coil and applies the timing retard or advance depending on engine rpm (factory set) thus Transistor Controlled Ignition. or
TCI.

I hope i have enlightened you all. i have had to learn all this so i figured i'd share. maybe it will help someone else in troubleshooting their baby too. but keep in mind that yamaha uses TCI ignition in their R1's and R6's at least the early years (98-03).
 

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Ghostrider Squadron
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9,251 Posts
lol... thanks for lesson.. first time i have ever heard it called TCI.. after working at large motorcycle dealer for many years...we call them black box or CDI...but now i know. really yamaha calls it an ECU...Engine Control Unit..

hope u get it fixed.. 9 out of 10 times there was never ECU problem.. it was always something else... i had SV 650 do same thing.. changed ECU cuz pickup showed good... after new ECU..same thing..no spark.... ended up being intermittent pickup coil... so check it and also check voltage to it and out of it. just cuz it ohm's out correct ..it could still be problem.
 

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worse than the worst
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204 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
i got a spare pickup coil so i guess i'll change it and see what happens.

thankz. i'll tell you what happened
 

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Premium Member
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241 Posts
Did changing the coil help? I'm having a problem with no power below 4K rpm and at first I thought it might be, or hoped, the carbs needed sync and adjusted. Just got the call that cylinder 4 was running cold and they traced it to either a bad coil or TCI/CDI box.

Is the CDI/TCI box on a 99 the same as a 2001? I may have a hookup on a 99 to try out
 

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THE MAN
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3,744 Posts
WELL IF ONLY ONE CYLINDER IS HAVING PROBLEMS IT CANNOT BE THE CDI BOX.

cylinders 1 and 4, and 2 and 3 are linked together and fire at the same time.
 

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Twisties 32 miles 2.5 mi away
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926 Posts
JAYSTENSEC4CYL said:
WELL IF ONLY ONE CYLINDER IS HAVING PROBLEMS IT CANNOT BE THE CDI BOX.

cylinders 1 and 4, and 2 and 3 are linked together and fire at the same time.
^^^he's right...no power below 4K rpm sounds more like EXUP problem. One cold cylinder is probably spark plug or plug wire problem.
 

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worse than the worst
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204 Posts
Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
haven't changed my pickup coil yet but thats exactly what my bike did before all this started. i was told i had a bad piston or blown ring. thats y i took the engine apart in the first place. now i think it may have been tci related. since i had my heads redone and the pistons and rings tested and when i put everything back together, it ran the same way. then it just died. so it may have been computer related. i'm waiting on another tci now.

im gonna change that coil and i'll let you know. but thinking about it, true coil 1&4 fire together and 2&3 fire together. the tci box controls the fire timing, and if somehow, the box is processing only 1 of the events (2 events per rotation per coil). it COULD produce the symptoms we are seeing with only 1 of the 2 linked cylinders firing and 1 not until the timing advance after 4000 rpm.

i'm guessing but i usually guess well.
we'll see when that new box gets here
 

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Premium Member
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241 Posts
Badboy magiq and everyone else thanks for the replies.

I know it's not a exup prob because I have a for full Akrapovic system and w/ a Ivan's jet kit along w/ his air box mod.

Magiq, I may be able to borrow a ignitor unit and a coil from my friends R1 to try out on my bike to see if which may be the problem. I'll let you know what I find out also.

Thanks
 

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THE MAN
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3,744 Posts
R8 if your problem is the bike will not accept full throttle below 4k, thats what a full system does to an R1.

Do Ivan's air box mod, use an aftermarket air filter, and put the stock main jets in it.

Sounds crazy, but the difference is night and day.
 

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Twisties 32 miles 2.5 mi away
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926 Posts
2MileHighR1 said:
^^^he's right...no power below 4K rpm sounds more like EXUP problem. One cold cylinder is probably spark plug or plug wire problem.
I got to thinking about the statement above...each coil has a common primary winding but separate secondary windings. If one secondary winding was shorted, open, or grounded, only one plug would fire...so the problem could be a coil. Try switching coil positions and see if the dead cylinder moves too.
 

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Premium Member
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241 Posts
Did the airbox mod w/ the K&N already. Cylinder 4 is running cold.

2milehigh, thanks for the suggestion and I'll give that a try.

Thanks
 

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worse than the worst
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204 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
back again-still no spark

ok heres the update. i have replaced almost everything i can get to. rectifier computer, pickup coil, spark plugs im about to toss this bike in the lake. please help. i get no spark at all. what am i missing?. also the valves were done before the problem started. would the bike refuse to spark if the timing slipped? i dont know. PLEASE HELP!!!!! and please keep it on topic im not interested in ivans airbox mods right now. maybe after i get it running again. it looks too pretty to just be sittin there
 

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There can be only One
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1,652 Posts
it would still spark if timing slipped, it would just be out of sync witht the pistons and valves closing with fuel and air mix.

But i'm not sure where to start.
If it was me i'd follow the wiring diagram and start at the beginnnig. The battery, then work my way through untill you loose resistance
but i'm no expert just someone who tinkers to save money
 

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Registered
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175 Posts
did you get your problem figured out in the end mate? having the same issue here atm, pulled out of a junction the other day bike backfired and died and now i've no spark at all at the coils. have put my ecu into the mates and it seems to be working 100%.. haven't checked crank pickup yet, think the coils my have popped. hoping you can hopefully shed some light on this before i go off and order a set of coils.. cheers =)
 
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badboy magiq
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