Yamaha R1 Forum: YZF-R1 Forums banner

1 - 20 of 46 Posts

·
R1.. The fast kind
Joined
·
813 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi guys
Having owned the -99 R1, -05 R1 and -07 R1 i've been increasingly happy with each switch, almost...

The -07 had some issues Yamaha took its good time to find out and correct.

The annoying on/off action from zero throttle they never fixed.

Since then the bike's gone through some serious changes, starting with a reflash to "Street YEC" ECU thanks to Barsentum (RIP) and R1Liam who made me aware of its existence.

Followed up with ported cylinderhead, Öhlins suspension, and more, making it a well performing superbike yet a nice streetbike with impressingly good low end tourque.

Now with +87000 miles on the clock the bike will be totaly impossible to sell but buying a newer bike seems to be a wise choise.

In -09 i rode the all new, R1 and to be honest, i wasn't that impressed compared to the -07..

I don't care that much about looks and sound so that won't be large decisive factors..

However, here in Sweden, the later the YM the more impossible the insurance cost.

I know this is highly guided by personal preferences and economics but anyways, may things like crossplane engine, ABS-brakes, muliple riding modes, electronic suspension and increasingly improved electronic riding aids make the bike that more fun to ride taking in account the increased insurance cost?

There's plenty of R1s with low milage (even 07-08) so what would be the optimum generation 09-> R1 concidering not only will the bike be more expensive to buy with every generation, the insurance cost increase exponentionally...

Or may the electronics make the bike more boring to ride? ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
964 Posts
I rode the 2017 model at the track a couple years ago. Impressive machine for sure (comparing to my 2000, 2002, and now my 2006). Thing for me is cost also. My 2006 is set up perfect suspension wise. Yes, the new ones are faster. My 2006 is paid for, always has been. Insurance is more than it should be but that’s a fact of living in Michigan. I definitely can’t justify a newer one because there’s more important things in life (housing remodel, saving for retirement, vacations with my girl, etc.). So, it depends on your priorities. A 2018-2019 R1 (or R1M) would be awesome but my 2006 is pretty awesome also.
 

·
JACK3D!!!
Joined
·
458 Posts
It was night and day for me. I went from a low-end torquey '02 to a BEAST mid/high-end '18. They each have their pros/cons, but the insane power and confidence in/out of corners on the '18 still drives me nuts. The latest model crossplane is literally stupid. Once you hit powerband it unleashes power that propels you forward. The electronics makes it so smooth you don't even realize how fast you're really going. Personally it's easier to steer this bike at speed compared to the '02 which steered easy slow or fast. I think its due to the '18's steering damper, something I've never used before. The '18 is built to go fast...at all times. I felt the ABS once hard braking and can understand how it wouldn't be good to use on the track. You can't load up the front tire when it kicks in.

The new ones cost a lot, insurance is up there, and it burns gas faster. Like Deer_killer said it depends on your situation. My '02's been beat ragged and the '18 will last just as long with INSANE power, tech, and aesthetics. Mines bone stock...can't imagine what modded/race-prepped ones are like. For me, it was worth it...I love this beast.
 

Attachments

·
R1.. The fast kind
Joined
·
813 Posts
Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Thanks guys for good input, i appreciate it.

Owning the -07 for 12 years and havn't rode that many other sportbikes since so i can't tell how my bike perform compared to the newer once but the constant mods have made it better than stock.

However, i now realise i need to go testride a 2015-2017 and 2018-2019 just to know if i'll value the electronics (which i probably will once i have it).

If i don't think it's that necessary next step will be crossplane or not which furter widen the selective range :)

Would be interesting to hear if some one actually prefer flatplane over crossplane?
 

·
One Liter Duck Eater
Joined
·
236 Posts
I have a 09 and it is but far, my favorite motorcycle. I have no thoughts about getting rid of it. For one, I paid it off the day I got it and two, I hate payments.

Just curious, why don’t you like the 09-14’s?

I like the looks of the 15 to 20’s, but for me, they are not street friendly motorcycles. Very aggressive ergos.
 

·
R1.. The fast kind
Joined
·
813 Posts
Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
I have a 09 and it is but far, my favorite motorcycle. I have no thoughts about getting rid of it. For one, I paid it off the day I got it and two, I hate payments.

Just curious, why don’t you like the 09-14’s?

I like the looks of the 15 to 20’s, but for me, they are not street friendly motorcycles. Very aggressive ergos.
You have some good points.
As i wrote earlier i'm more of a function than aesthetics guy, of corse i don't want a pure ugly bike eather but function goes first.

I'm not in critical need of a new bike and thinking of it i've put my self in to this situation by always maintaining and improving my -07 so it's probably as mechanicaly reliable as a 10 years newer bike.

But things like e,g lifespan of electronics is difficult to predict and lets face it, development move on.

Some times it bring good things, some times not so good.

I think, no, i know i'd like many of the advantadges the electronic packages the newer R1 have.
On the other hand i surely would kick my ass if i got that over a weaker low - midrange than my -07 have since the kind of riding i do would be harder then.

If it wasn't that i love sportbikes i probably would do better with a MT-10, hehe.

In the end, what i really have to do is get out and test ride some of the newer generations.

Besides that, i still love to hear what you guys who made the switch from pre -09 to the newer generations think since a short test ride won't tell me everything (y)
 

·
Twisty Roads for me!
Joined
·
859 Posts
Ozzian,



I'm upgrading my 07 R1 to a track-only motorcycle now. I'm going to upgrade it with all the latest electronics. Examples below;





I own both the 07 and 15 R1. I love them both, but the 15 has more top-end power, but the 07 R1 is a track weapon imo.






Keep the 07 R1 IMO and upgrade the electronics's.

Stan




St








You have some good points.
As i wrote earlier i'm more of a function than aesthetics guy, of corse i don't want a pure ugly bike eather but function goes first.

I'm not in critical need of a new bike and thinking of it i've put my self in to this situation by always maintaining and improving my -07 so it's probably as mechanicaly reliable as a 10 years newer bike.

But things like e,g lifespan of electronics is difficult to predict and lets face it, development move on.

Some times it bring good things, some times not so good.

I think, no, i know i'd like many of the advantadges the electronic packages the newer R1 have.
On the other hand i surely would kick my ass if i got that over a weaker low - midrange than my -07 have since the kind of riding i do would be harder then.

If it wasn't that i love sportbikes i probably would do better with a MT-10, hehe.

In the end, what i really have to do is get out and test ride some of the newer generations.

Besides that, i still love to hear what you guys who made the switch from pre -09 to the newer generations think since a short test ride won't tell me everything (y)
 

·
R1.. The fast kind
Joined
·
813 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Stan1.
Thanks for your insights.

Just plowed through a lot of reviews and specs and found things i like with the newer R1s and some not so much.

The -07 i have is like it is because it had some flaws i had to adress and it has kind of been an ongoing project.

Since insurance is resonable i can as well keep it and during the coming winter upgrade with some nice electronic features (y) :)
 

·
Not an R7, next best thing!!
Joined
·
208 Posts
I have an 09 and a 16. I loved my 09: the sound, the power, the smooth throttle after my ECU work (FTECU and my own maps + Tads) that got rid of the on/off throttle stuff. The red and white paint scheme. Just great bikes. Then I got the 16 and WOW. Engine spins up faster and she is stronger. Of course I flashed her and got her throttle to feel perfect, which for me roll on feel somewhere between the immediate jerk of the A mode and the lazy roll on of the RSV4 RF Race ECU (my brothers bike). Add to that the electronics package that just makes the bike safer to ride and the 16 for me is a win. The one thing I immediately notices was that the 16 stayed at lean when breaking and my 09 always tried to stand up under breaking. My 16 feels so planted in the corners and on throttle out of corners is apparently amazing (I am not a good enough rider yet to really push the electronics...soon though). I wish u luck man, but I just dont see how you can go wrong with the Crossplane. The sound alone makes it worth it. Below is pick of my 16.

1008272
 

·
R1.. The fast kind
Joined
·
813 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Thanks IamLa for good input.

Really great pic, kind of make me want to book a track day right now (y)

I've been talking to a friend about getting a newer bike and since we mainly ride on road hes advice was my new bike should at least have ABS brakes...
Been riding R1 for 18 years without any electronic riding aids so that wasn't my biggest concerne but of course i get hes point.

Since i don't have any real experience with R1 after 2008 please feel free to fill in when i'm out of line :)

My current -07 has a quite modified engine to remove "jerkines" and improve low and midrange torque as well as upgraded chassi which mean a stock 09-11 won't be a large improvement, besides the crossplane configuration?

Going on to 2012 reviews say engine doesn't change that much but it have traction control, still no ABS..

2015 things start to change but now insurance start get out of proportions but not like 2018 and up which are out of wack..

A 2015 to 2017 might be the thing (i'm not mentaly there yet thoug, hehe).

With the -07 i have no "big" problem ride for an entire day.
From what i've read the later models are not as "comfortable" (yes, it's in quote marks) as the earlier models, right?

I know, this might sound strange but it's kind of important since i ride rather long stints and at least once a year make a tour in Europe...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,440 Posts
ive had 99, 04, 09, 15, 16 r1's and i would say after riding the cross plane it felt off but once i got used to it i don't desire to go back to flat plane motors i enjoy the feel. the 09-14 is a bit more bottom end and a bit more comfortable then the 15+ but the 15+ is a lot more motorcycle. the electronics can be adjusted and turned up or down so you can ride how you want and they will only step in under extreme circumstances if thats what you want. i personally feel like i have kept myself in one piece till now and healing isn't as easy as you get older so a bit of rider aids as a buffer is alright with me. the one thing i would stress about the 15+ is the seat feels like cement. I've got use to it now but i let a buddy ride it and when i swapped onto his 00 it felt like my butt was sinking into a lazyboy, what a difference.
 

·
kickin' at the darkness
Joined
·
10,016 Posts
a lot of riders have a bit of a mental block directly attached to the throttle hand, which causes 'em to not understand the advantages of a Xplane engine on the R1.

it is nearly impossible to explain it away if you cant get passed it. i watched the video comparison above of an 07 chasing the Xplanker II, its fvcking obvious and yes you can very clearly hear it in engine behavior / sound. For the rest of us, its a real bloody headache to respond when others swear they dont give a shit about the sound. Uhmm. So what you're saying is, you dont want to use the ONE tool which tells all.. yeah, good luck with that.


easiest way to help while the learning curve continues.. ROSSI seems
to think its a superior system. He changed the direction of one of the biggest
manufacturers in the business. And he had a choice, but at that level there's
always work to be done i'm sure.

i could go on for hours about the PLUS column, but all i can say is my Xplanker 09 sounds
ABSOLUTELY nothing like that bike on the video.
 

·
R1.. The fast kind
Joined
·
813 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
a lot of riders have a bit of a mental block directly attached to the throttle hand, which causes 'em to not understand the advantages of a Xplane engine on the R1.

it is nearly impossible to explain it away if you cant get passed it. i watched the video comparison above of an 07 chasing the Xplanker II, its fvcking obvious and yes you can very clearly hear it in engine behavior / sound. For the rest of us, its a real bloody headache to respond when others swear they dont give a shit about the sound. Uhmm. So what you're saying is, you dont want to use the ONE tool which tells all.. yeah, good luck with that.


easiest way to help while the learning curve continues.. ROSSI seems
to think its a superior system. He changed the direction of one of the biggest
manufacturers in the business. And he had a choice, but at that level there's
always work to be done i'm sure.

i could go on for hours about the PLUS column, but all i can say is my Xplanker 09 sounds
ABSOLUTELY nothing like that bike on the video.
I havn't yet had the opportunity to ride any of the newer crossplane R1s so i still feel a little bit "uneducated" :)

I respect other riders thought of, e,g, sound beeing as important as anything else since it's a thought shared by so many people.
However, for me that just isn't the case, i would't trade performance for a special sound, for me it just doesn't matter and i don't ride to impress others...

About Valentino Rossi...
The only thing he want right now is more top speed and sadly that's the only thing Yamaha won't be prepared to give him.
According to Massimo Meregalli, at the latest race at Aragon, they could get more power but it would hurt the engines all over drivability and reliability..

Of course the M1 has big advantadges on tracks with shorter and fewer straights and more sharp turns but it must be so hard to work their way up in the turns just to be overtaken on the straights with no effort by others...


On the other hand, for me who do most of the driving on road, i guess a bike with a stronger bottom and midrange should be preferable in the long run which would favor the earlier crossplanes..

Once again, thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences of flatplane vs crossplane (y)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,440 Posts
Crossplane isn't better bottom end it just puts the power to the ground more efficiently so your able to keep traction and put more throttle in when your coming out of the turn.
 

·
kickin' at the darkness
Joined
·
10,016 Posts
Crossplane isn't better bottom end it just puts the power to the ground more efficiently so your able to keep traction and put more throttle in when your coming out of the turn.
correct, its very hard to explain if you're just looking at a dyno.. i just find it a fuller power-band
as in its tractable, its way more efficient..

i had posted something regarding the 07 R1 on the video but i deleted it as I probably came
off rather 'dickish'.. To be honest though, thats what i noticed right away. The inline 4 is very peaky and is known to lose traction right at the apex of the corner if you crack the throttle open.. the Xplane allows the rider with a bit more confidence and feel and affords the advantage of carrying you right through the entire corner.. I see a little more corner entry speed as well, but as you say; a rider (all things being equal) should afford more traction and power to drive out the corner better.

Yes you could still crack the throttle and lose traction with the Xplane but as a rider you
would know you're about to cash a check your arse cant afford. Why else would Josh Hayes
be braggin' about not having to run much TC on his Gen1 Championship R1. ?

but of course if you've not ridden one, and you dont know why the engine sounds so
different then its gonna be that much tougher to understand. Nobody likes high-sides
and the Xplane simply is there to assist in lessening the likely-hood of one, in very
simple terms.

I dont know where it came from for me, i just kinda "got it" right off the bat and once I rode
my brand new 09 R1 i knew i was on the right 'TRACK'.. ;)

I respect other riders thought of, e,g, sound beeing as important as anything else since it's a thought shared by so many people.

However, for me that just isn't the case, i would't trade performance for a special sound, for me it just doesn't matter and i don't ride to impress others...


Once again, thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences of flatplane vs crossplane (y)
read above responses and quoted material..

this is what you're not understanding.. when we speak of the sound is because we can
hear it in the engine not as its sitting on the paddock stands.. we mean this literally, as
the rider goes around a track, through the twisty bits, on the long straights and all that
jazz.. throughout the entire process we can just tell how much more feel it offers and how
tractable engine behavior is... it can be subtle to extreme, but its there, every damn time..

its incredibly hard to explain, cause as you say, you just dont think sound is all that important..

you THINK we are just simply saying, oh it sounds better.. so you think of course there must
be a trade off in performance or that somehow every single one of us just wanted to play
in a band as we were kids...

again, you're missing the point entirely..

I am a sound engineer, when i say 'listen to it' i mean rather simply.

LISTEN TO IT!! tell me what you're hearing, and watch the bike's behavior
as the dude rips around the track.. then tell me if that is not pure sex on wheels.

its really too bad nobody is posting videos of a 2015 + R1 chasing the 07 around the track
with the same audio quality.. but i suspect it would be hard to replicate.
c'mon guys, the punchline writes itself :D
 

·
R1.. The fast kind
Joined
·
813 Posts
Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Crossplane isn't better bottom end it just puts the power to the ground more efficiently so your able to keep traction and put more throttle in when your coming out of the turn.
Sorry for being unclear.
When i wrote "better low end torque" i ment as a comparison between crossplanes before and after 2015.
My impression, from reading this thread the engines after 2015 have the power moved up in the rev range, correct?

Just to clear things up, i rarely ride on track and hence don't pin the throttle 100% out of every corner.

Don't get me wrong, i love to let the engine rev to redline but the truth is the majority of my riding is probably done below 9000rpm and that's okay since my current engine let me ride like that.

I want to thank you all for sharing your thoughts, i think i have the information i need now (y)
 

·
R1.. The fast kind
Joined
·
813 Posts
Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
correct, its very hard to explain if you're just looking at a dyno.. i just find it a fuller power-band
as in its tractable, its way more efficient..

i had posted something regarding the 07 R1 on the video but i deleted it as I probably came
off rather 'dickish'.. To be honest though, thats what i noticed right away. The inline 4 is very peaky and is known to lose traction right at the apex of the corner if you crack the throttle open.. the Xplane allows the rider with a bit more confidence and feel and affords the advantage of carrying you right through the entire corner.. I see a little more corner entry speed as well, but as you say; a rider (all things being equal) should afford more traction and power to drive out the corner better.

Yes you could still crack the throttle and lose traction with the Xplane but as a rider you
would know you're about to cash a check your arse cant afford. Why else would Josh Hayes
be braggin' about not having to run much TC on his Gen1 Championship R1. ?

but of course if you've not ridden one, and you dont know why the engine sounds so
different then its gonna be that much tougher to understand. Nobody likes high-sides
and the Xplane simply is there to assist in lessening the likely-hood of one, in very
simple terms.

I dont know where it came from for me, i just kinda "got it" right off the bat and once I rode
my brand new 09 R1 i knew i was on the right 'TRACK'.. ;)



read above responses and quoted material..

this is what you're not understanding.. when we speak of the sound is because we can
hear it in the engine not as its sitting on the paddock stands.. we mean this literally, as
the rider goes around a track, through the twisty bits, on the long straights and all that
jazz.. throughout the entire process we can just tell how much more feel it offers and how
tractable engine behavior is... it can be subtle to extreme, but its there, every damn time..

its incredibly hard to explain, cause as you say, you just dont think sound is all that important..

you THINK we are just simply saying, oh it sounds better.. so you think of course there must
be a trade off in performance or that somehow every single one of us just wanted to play
in a band as we were kids...

again, you're missing the point entirely..

I am a sound engineer, when i say 'listen to it' i mean rather simply.

LISTEN TO IT!! tell me what you're hearing, and watch the bike's behavior
as the dude rips around the track.. then tell me if that is not pure sex on wheels.

its really too bad nobody is posting videos of a 2015 + R1 chasing the 07 around the track
with the same audio quality.. but i suspect it would be hard to replicate.
c'mon guys, the punchline writes itself :D
I think you misread or misunderstod my post.
I wrote, "i don't care how it sound", not that it sound.
Meaning, i don't care that much if an engine sound like a V-twin below 5000rpm and then like a screamer at top end...
My dad is half def so i sure understand the importance of being able to hear the engine and what it's doing (y);)
 
1 - 20 of 46 Posts
Top