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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
It's actually not as hard as you would think. Basically just remove the exhaust, and drop the oil pan. Then its right there to get too. Just have to un hook all the pipes from the outside and then unbolt it from the bottom of the engine. Its not fun to do, and kind of annoying, but really not terrible. The water pump/oil pump unit is about $200 new. Or if your confident with it, you can take it apart and just replace the parts that need replacing. It's sometimes just easier to get a whole new unit.

And you know, I just thought about this. As you said the engine got louder with more ticking/tapping sounds. Well if the water pump isn't working, then your oil pump probably isn't doing much good either causing a lack of lubrication, which could be the cause of your noise. They are both the same unit and work off the same gear and shaft.

You will also need all the gaskets and seals and o-rings. So like the oil pan gasket, the o-rings for the weep hole tube, then all the pipes that go into the pump.
Great assumption with the sound. That totally makes sense. So it sounds to me like its definitely the pump. I watched a video and read the mechanic manual to see how its done. It doesnt look to bad, Id just need to get replacement gaskets for everything.
And just because its easier than the water pump, do you think it could potentially be my thermostat staying closed?
 

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I would think that I could kill two birds if I just removed the coolant cap, start the bike up, watch the pump suck a sink at the neck... then wait for the thermostat to open and flow over and out the neck. Correct me if that does not seem feasible?

I too am lost, who's on first? OP is out of the loop, someone else chimed in?
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
I would think that I could kill two birds if I just removed the coolant cap, start the bike up, watch the pump suck a sink at the neck... then wait for the thermostat to open and flow over and out the neck. Correct me if that does not seem feasible?

I too am lost, who's on first? OP is out of the loop, someone else chimed in?
I took the cap off after the bike was already warmed up to about 150ish and started the bike. Didnt see no bubbles, no movement in the coolant at all. Thus why I think it could be a bad pump. It shot up to about 200 in a minute.
 

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Great assumption with the sound. That totally makes sense. So it sounds to me like its definitely the pump. I watched a video and read the mechanic manual to see how its done. It doesnt look to bad, Id just need to get replacement gaskets for everything.
And just because its easier than the water pump, do you think it could potentially be my thermostat staying closed?
Its possible, but I'm still leaning toward your pump being bad. But yeah to test the thermostat you would just put it in water and warm it up, using a thermometer check the temp of the water and see when it opens up.

Last time I had an over heating problem like this, was back on my 2000 R1 many years ago. It turned out to be my pump went bad. I don't remember what actually broke on it to cause the problem, as this was 18 years ago. But I replaced the pump and it fixed all that.
 
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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
Its possible, but I'm still leaning toward your pump being bad. But yeah to test the thermostat you would just put it in water and warm it up, using a thermometer check the temp of the water and see when it opens up.

Last time I had an over heating problem like this, was back on my 2000 R1 many years ago. It turned out to be my pump went bad. I don't remember what actually broke on it to cause the problem, as this was 18 years ago. But I replaced the pump and it fixed all that.
Sounds like Im gonna have a fun weekend next week lol. I have no idea what would cause a mechanic pump to go bad but Ill just replace it with a new one. Hopefully my internals arent too beat up after all of this, realistically I should be okay. At least now I know my cooling system shouldnt have another failure for good while lol. I might fog up a fan switch to manually kick them on when the bike is running hot, Ive seen alot of people saying how hard it is to keep the 04-06 cool, and Ive definitely experienced the heated seat after an hour ride lol.
 

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Sounds like Im gonna have a fun weekend next week lol. I have no idea what would cause a mechanic pump to go bad but Ill just replace it with a new one. Hopefully my internals arent too beat up after all of this, realistically I should be okay. At least now I know my cooling system shouldnt have another failure for good while lol. I might fog up a fan switch to manually kick them on when the bike is running hot, Ive seen alot of people saying how hard it is to keep the 04-06 cool, and Ive definitely experienced the heated seat after an hour ride lol.
I really wish I could remember what it was on mine. I think it was actually the oil side of the pump that gave out, which caused the whole thing to fail. Once you have it out though, its easy to take it apart and check the shaft and both sides of the pump to figure out what happened.

Tip for when you put it back together, be careful with the weep hole tube. Put it in the pan first and then take your time lining it up with the pump and just be gentle as you get the pan back in place. If any of those 2 seals don't go in all the way, or tear. You will have a small oil drip, and its kind of annoying.

And yes my 05 is always on the hotter side, as long as I'm moving its normally ok. But in traffic in the city, it will hit 220 easy. My 2020 seems to be the same, but tends to cool down faster and stay a few degrees cooler when moving.
 

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Discussion Starter · #49 ·
I really wish I could remember what it was on mine. I think it was actually the oil side of the pump that gave out, which caused the whole thing to fail. Once you have it out though, its easy to take it apart and check the shaft and both sides of the pump to figure out what happened.

Tip for when you put it back together, be careful with the weep hole tube. Put it in the pan first and then take your time lining it up with the pump and just be gentle as you get the pan back in place. If any of those 2 seals don't go in all the way, or tear. You will have a small oil drip, and its kind of annoying.

And yes my 05 is always on the hotter side, as long as I'm moving its normally ok. But in traffic in the city, it will hit 220 easy. My 2020 seems to be the same, but tends to cool down faster and stay a few degrees cooler when moving.
Yeah I saw in a youtube video the guy was very specific about how to put it all back together. I dont think I will have a problem.
I wouldnt be surprised the chain snapped or fell off its gear and thats the ticking noise Im hearing. Hopefully thats not the case lol and once I get out the old pump Ill report what I find.
 

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Sounds good, report back when you get further and we shall go from there
 

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Discussion Starter · #52 ·
Okay so I just removed the clutch basket and I found out that my clutch is completely toasted. Probably very lucky I didnt see and big chunks of metal in the oil, but definately some aluminum shavings it looks like.

As for the water pump, I havent removed it yet since its late and we dont have much light in the garage so Ill do it tomorrow. However I was able to move the water pump and it definately seemed like it was building and releasing pressure in the system. And the chain looked to be in excellent shape, maybe a bit loose but not terrible.

So now I know the whole clutch assembly needs to be replaced however Im not certain thats going to stop my high idling issue and overheating fast. Let me know if you have any other suggestions thank you. Ill attach some photos of the clutch basket here too.
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Okay so I just removed the clutch basket and I found out that my clutch is completely toasted. Probably very lucky I didnt see and big chunks of metal in the oil, but definately some aluminum shavings it looks like.

As for the water pump, I havent removed it yet since its late and we dont have much light in the garage so Ill do it tomorrow. However I was able to move the water pump and it definately seemed like it was building and releasing pressure in the system. And the chain looked to be in excellent shape, maybe a bit loose but not terrible.

So now I know the whole clutch assembly needs to be replaced however Im not certain thats going to stop my high idling issue and overheating fast. Let me know if you have any other suggestions thank you. Ill attach some photos of the clutch basket here too. View attachment 1022725 View attachment 1022724
Curious to know what's going on with the clutch there. And I doubt that has much to do with your original problem. And I don't even know where my OE clutch stuff is to look at things for reference to this problem, I replaced mine many many years ago with an STI Slipper Clutch kit. So a lot of my OE basket parts are removed. I'll keep an eye on this as you get a little further and into it and have more info to go off of. Really need to have the pump out to see what's going on. It could be your oil side is causing the potential issue. Something could be binding or broken inside, which is causing a lack of flow. But we shall see.
 

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Discussion Starter · #54 ·
Curious to know what's going on with the clutch there. And I doubt that has much to do with your original problem. And I don't even know where my OE clutch stuff is to look at things for reference to this problem, I replaced mine many many years ago with an STI Slipper Clutch kit. So a lot of my OE basket parts are removed. I'll keep an eye on this as you get a little further and into it and have more info to go off of. Really need to have the pump out to see what's going on. It could be your oil side is causing the potential issue. Something could be binding or broken inside, which is causing a lack of flow. But we shall see.
Okay, Ill go ahead and drain the coolant and take a look at the pump. I found a OEM clutch on ebay for $250 that looks very clean, worth saving a couple bucks and doing that?
 

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Okay, Ill go ahead and drain the coolant and take a look at the pump. I found a OEM clutch on ebay for $250 that looks very clean, worth saving a couple bucks and doing that?
As long as everything looks good on it, you should be fine with a used one. You will probably want to look into a clutch tool though since your doing this now. Its like vice grips to hold the basket in place when you put it all back together. Not too expensive to get and worth having if your going to wrench on your own stuff. Did you already get a water pump replacement? Or are you still in the stage of just checking it out to see? And you said you moved the pump to check it? What did you do for that? just spin the sprocket? If so that would be on the side with the oil pump. So as I mentioned before, you could still have internal problems with the pump.
 

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Discussion Starter · #56 ·
As long as everything looks good on it, you should be fine with a used one. You will probably want to look into a clutch tool though since your doing this now. Its like vice grips to hold the basket in place when you put it all back together. Not too expensive to get and worth having if your going to wrench on your own stuff. Did you already get a water pump replacement? Or are you still in the stage of just checking it out to see? And you said you moved the pump to check it? What did you do for that? just spin the sprocket? If so that would be on the side with the oil pump. So as I mentioned before, you could still have internal problems with the pump.
No I have not gotten the water pump replacement yet, been looking for a good deal on ebay and my money is pretty tight rn. Im gonna replace all the gaskets and seals that the service manual says to replace as well.
Yeah I guess I just moved the oil side of the pump (the sprocket that the chain goes to), It was spinning to the right pretty effortlessly and when I turn it to the left it would have some resistance and then release. I used a couple small wrenches to hold to basket (kind of like the vice grips would attach) while my mechanic friend took an impact to the bolt to get it off. Nothing broke or chipped surprisingly, did take a bit of effort to get the bolt off but it came off no problem.
 

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No I have not gotten the water pump replacement yet, been looking for a good deal on ebay and my money is pretty tight rn. Im gonna replace all the gaskets and seals that the service manual says to replace as well.
Yeah I guess I just moved the oil side of the pump (the sprocket that the chain goes to), It was spinning to the right pretty effortlessly and when I turn it to the left it would have some resistance and then release. I used a couple small wrenches to hold to basket (kind of like the vice grips would attach) while my mechanic friend took an impact to the bolt to get it off. Nothing broke or chipped surprisingly, did take a bit of effort to get the bolt off but it came off no problem.
Yeah I understand the money thing, it happens. I do suggest that you try to get a new pump vs a used one though. If you find one on e-bay for a good price then that will work. Just with a used one, you don't really know the condition of all the internals.
 
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A word to the wallet... here is where money is tight, the bad move buying used, the realization that the description said everything but it's actual function is no longer present, but I'll sell this piece of trash online, I still believe there is a sucker born every other day, so this day I put a bid on and won junk.

And the wallet comes back and says, see, I told you to buy new for a few dollars more, but now you are out of the 3/4 buy of junk could have gone to a new one, but no, you had to think, why just the other day, I made a sign that says kick me for not listening to turtle the first time.

Signed,
I knew you wouldn't listen
 

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Discussion Starter · #59 ·
Okay the day has come. I finally took apart the bottom end of the motor. The verdict: water pump side of the assembley was completely seized. Caused by metal bits that came from the exploding clutch. Lots of metal bits and chunks in my oil pan, thankfully I dont think anything major happened up top. My gears might be fine too, but I really think the motor will be fine after I relplace the water pump and every seal known to man lol. This is gonna cost alot to me but its better than taking it to a shop.

I also took off the stator motor as one of my bolts for the cover was loose and I saw metal bits around that area I cleaned up. Not sure if itll cause a future issue but I plan on replacing any gear/bearing/sleeve that looks to be chipped or rashed up. Thankfully the oil itself looked clean when I drained it, not sparkly and nice and red still (motul 7100). Ill use new oil anyways. Also when I drained the coolant it was clean other than some of the fluid that came out the pipe that goes from below the headers and into the oil cooler. Its was a bit dirty but that was the only muck I saw.
Ill let you guys knows once I get the bike back together and see if theres any issues. Im hoping as soon as everything back together the bike will run like new.
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And yes my oil pan has JB weld lol
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