Yamaha R1 Forum: YZF-R1 Forums banner

1 - 20 of 44 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,619 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Ok guys I put the bike on the dyno today, completely stock with 350 miles on it....................................................

147.5 Peak RWHP on a "dynojet"

I put the Micron slip-on on tonight and cleaned out the cat. On monday or tuesday we will run it again. The guy testing it said once I had about 1800 miles on it bring it in again as he has seen as much as 4-5 hp increases on other R1's after getting some good miles on it.

I will post the graph's and before and after on Tuesday.

BTW - Before it went on the dyno I opened her up and went to redline in first, second, and third .............. HOLY SH1T.....
I don't need anymore HP than it has right now.... 155 mhp and the front wheel was off the ground.........


I just saw another post that was done on a dynojet also and it made 155rwhp ?? why is there so much difference in bewteen dyno's ?????????
 

·
Beams of light and angels sing
Joined
·
51 Posts
:fork congrats on the dyno numbers cant wait to see the graphs without the cat to see if it gets rid of the 7grand dip
I can hardly wait for the dealer to call and let me know my silver 04 is in
 

·
L8R2U
Joined
·
21,459 Posts
Congrats. I would like to see what happens without the cat. :)
 

·
Ghostrider Squadron
Joined
·
9,251 Posts
almost same as mine. i had 42 miles on it and fresh oil change. it was like 148.97. i live at crappy elevation tho. i was very pleased as im sure u are too. congrats
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
310 Posts
I don't understand why anyone would think a catalytic converter could have anything to do with a 7K torque dip. That's basically the same thing as saying the dual exhaust cans cause the torque dip. The cat is nothing more than a small restriction just like the cans.

The dip is caused by the EXUP. Just look at any full system dyno chart, the dip is gone.
 

·
Moving Chicane
Joined
·
782 Posts
Greg Crowe said:
I don't understand why anyone would think a catalytic converter could have anything to do with a 7K torque dip. That's basically the same thing as saying the dual exhaust cans cause the torque dip. The cat is nothing more than a small restriction just like the cans.

The dip is caused by the EXUP. Just look at any full system dyno chart, the dip is gone.
Greg, you are either turning a blind eye, or just have convinced yourself of it contrary to the evidence.

FACT - all prior R1's had EXUP, but no dips like this. As you know from your own, after EXUP is removed with pipe, one then exists. Dont you remember any of that??

All the others have exhaust valves similar to them....and yes...either no dip or barely noticealbe. So why are you beating this EXUP thing up so much when old R1s and every other non 04 R1 that have these valves dont have that same problem.

Its clear its in the design of the whole system and how all the items work together. Or in this, how they dont work well together.

And though graph after graph has been posted showing how the CAT is at least half that dip, lets put it here to just so you guys who want to say it has nothing to do with it can say why there is a huge improvement when the only change is cat removal.
 

Attachments

·
mmmmm...black bike
Joined
·
1,856 Posts
R1LOVER said:
Ok guys I put the bike on the dyno today, completely stock with 350 miles on it....................................................

147.5 Peak RWHP on a "dynojet"

I put the Micron slip-on on tonight and cleaned out the cat. On monday or tuesday we will run it again. The guy testing it said once I had about 1800 miles on it bring it in again as he has seen as much as 4-5 hp increases on other R1's after getting some good miles on it.

I will post the graph's and before and after on Tuesday.

BTW - Before it went on the dyno I opened her up and went to redline in first, second, and third .............. HOLY SH1T.....
I don't need anymore HP than it has right now.... 155 mhp and the front wheel was off the ground.........


I just saw another post that was done on a dynojet also and it made 155rwhp ?? why is there so much difference in bewteen dyno's ?????????

Well all I can tell you is...different dyno's....different conditions, DIFFERENT BIKES, some have more of an error factor than others, blah blah blah. Some bikes are just looser than others and produce more HP earlier than other bikes do. Every bike was also not broken in the same way. There are too many factors to consider when talking about why one bike dyno's better than another. :hellobye
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
310 Posts
That dyno chart is so lame, try posting the torque graph. Let's see........ Graves and Pascal Picotte's mechanic back up what I've been saying all along......... you might want to rethink what you posted.

You claim that installing a full system on previous R1's created a torque dip......... well kind of but you're way off. If you made the mistake of installing a 4-2-1 system, you got a dip at 3-4K, NOT 7K. If you installed a 4-1 Akra, you got gains everywhere, no dip.
 

·
Moving Chicane
Joined
·
782 Posts
Greg Crowe said:
That dyno chart is so lame, try posting the torque graph. Let's see........ Graves and Pascal Picotte's mechanic back up what I've been saying all along......... you might want to rethink what you posted.
I see, its lame because it proves your wrong. And that you blindly beleive what your told by some guys just because he wears a Yamaha shirt. Your spouting what you hear and being ignorant to the facts. Man, you really need to learn to think for yourself.

Its pretty funny you want to resort to putting it down versus just deal with the fact that they told you what you wanted to beleive.
Unless you are completely blind or in denial, the graph speaks for itself.

Are you saying Torque does not determine HP at a given RPM ???
You probably will argue that and call it lame, so here is a cold hard fact of physics:

HP = (torque * RPM) / 5252

Yes, that does mean for the HP to drop there the torque did....but duh. Anyone with at least minimal undertanding of dynos should already know that.

Greg Crowe said:
You claim that installing a full system on previous R1's created a torque dip......... well kind of but you're way off. If you made the mistake of installing a 4-2-1 system, you got a dip at 3-4K, NOT 7K. If you installed a 4-1 Akra, you got gains everywhere, no dip. [/B]
Man you'll try anything to avoid giving in wont you. The point you totally avoided is the old bike had no dip. Which disproves EXUP alone causes it. Let me say it another way since your blue shirt friends aren't here to explain it to you. Show me where on the stock 98 thru 03 where the huge EXUP dip is. Then try it on the Kawi, Or the Honda since they have them now too.

The old bike didnt rev to 13 to 14K either, so what. Where it happens is neither here nore there. All you did with your attempt to avoid the point is back my thought that its the pipe design that is flawed, as the old bike showed the proper design cures dips, not wether you have EXUP or not.

Greg, I dont know why you want to drive this EXUP thing into the ground when no other manufacturers (now that they all have versions of it) have this problem. All you guys wanting to bag on the EXUP still haven't been able to explain why all the other bikes dont do this. All I can assume is its some mis-directed brand loyalty that allows you to blame the EPA for it when it's Yamaha and a flawed design that is the problem.

Plain and simple, Yamaha screwed the pooch on this one (the 04 pipe). Big deal. The bike is still great, even with that little "feature".
 

·
Once more into the breech
Joined
·
342 Posts
Greg Crowe said:
I don't understand why anyone would think a catalytic converter could have anything to do with a 7K torque dip. That's basically the same thing as saying the dual exhaust cans cause the torque dip. The cat is nothing more than a small restriction just like the cans.

The dip is caused by the EXUP. Just look at any full system dyno chart, the dip is gone.
Greg, I think you summed it up: You don't understand. You don't understand Heimholtz resonance and how waves can renforce each other or cancel each other out at various frequencies, you don't understand the timing of exhaust pulses and how they affect scavenging of the fuel charge, Dude you just don't understand. Here is a link to the simplest version of some basic physics that you might be able to understand:
click click
No offense intended in this reply, but back pressure is just a small piece of the bigger picture.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,772 Posts
The problem in all these discussions: Apples are compared to oranges.
The Arrow charts don't say ANYTHING because not only the cat was removed but the whole end pipe got changed.
I do not say "the cat is excluded", but I suggest a short visit at lkm.de and a look at their "tuning + full exhaust". The dip is still there, although cat and exup are gone!
I talked to Hennes Loehr of LKM and he said that the dip is a problem of many factors playing together (not only exhaust but also intake channel lengths for example) and cannot be easily cured (otherwise Yamaha obviously would have done that)
Heimholtz: Look at the Kawa exhaust. The cat is at about the same distance from the exhaust ports, without causing a dip. For the moment I don't buy this theory,
The only way to know: Put a R1 without cat but stock exhaust on a dyno and measure. Everything else is nonsense.
 

·
Once more into the breech
Joined
·
342 Posts
Juerg, you are right on the money. VPREATER tried eliminating the cat and found no appreaciable results. He is convinced that the EXUP opening is the culprit. All other things being equal, he must be right. Oh well back to the drawing board:crash
 

·
Shut up and ride
Joined
·
2,359 Posts
I don't see why you dyno'd your bike so early. Everyone get's the 04 and wants to run and put it on the dyno. Enjoy your bike, break her in right, get the feel of her, then when she is nice and broke in, then put her on the dyno. I bet you will get even better results. Just my .02
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,619 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Darkangel said:
I don't see why you dyno'd your bike so early. Everyone get's the 04 and wants to run and put it on the dyno. Enjoy your bike, break her in right, get the feel of her, then when she is nice and broke in, then put her on the dyno. I bet you will get even better results. Just my .02

Just for kick's and to see what the gain is going to be with the pipe, PC, and the cat removed.
 

·
3W M078
Joined
·
218 Posts
Darkangel said:
I don't see why you dyno'd your bike so early. Everyone get's the 04 and wants to run and put it on the dyno. Enjoy your bike, break her in right, get the feel of her, then when she is nice and broke in, then put her on the dyno. I bet you will get even better results. Just my .02
I agree completely. I don't understand these self proclaimed rocket scientists that take a bike with virtually no miles on it, strap it down on a dyno, and can't figure out why it isn't making advertised power.:2bitchsla

Gee, I wonder.

Rings that havent seated, and break in oil don't make for a great showing on the dyno...
 

·
Wanna try?
Joined
·
1,544 Posts
DJ SPEEDRACER! said:
I agree completely. I don't understand these self proclaimed rocket scientists that take a bike with virtually no miles on it, strap it down on a dyno, and can't figure out why it isn't making advertised power.:2bitchsla

Gee, I wonder.

Rings that havent seated, and break in oil don't make for a great showing on the dyno...
Everything in that engine is seated and broken in WITHIN 3 heat/cold cycles....Period....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,619 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
DJ SPEEDRACER! said:
I agree completely. I don't understand these self proclaimed rocket scientists that take a bike with virtually no miles on it, strap it down on a dyno, and can't figure out why it isn't making advertised power.:2bitchsla

Gee, I wonder.

Rings that havent seated, and break in oil don't make for a great showing on the dyno...

BTW - how do you know what oil was in the bike? :2bitchsla

350 miles oil change was done at 300. I put in yamalube 20-40.

Since you were speaking out the wrong end!
 

·
3W M078
Joined
·
218 Posts
R1LOVER said:
BTW - how do you know what oil was in the bike? :2bitchsla

350 miles oil change was done at 300. I put in yamalube 20-40.

Since you were speaking out the wrong end!
Ok, you changed the oil. Even worse. Break in oil is there for a reason; that reason being to aid in the seating/mating of various surfaces...your cylinder walls and rings included.

Do you totally dismiss everything the manual said regarding break in? Do you even understand the concept? The engineers want the break in oil in the motor for 600 miles. There is more than likely some leeway factored in, but you have essentially caused the seating of the rings to be delayed by changing the oil too soon. What is your point? Why not just go the other 250 miles, do the oil change, go another 400 miles, and then rod the piss out of it.

My point is; why go through effort to do something wrong?

It's your bike, but jeezus dude, breakin is just one more variable to factor in when trying to decipher a dyno chart.

You SEEM bright...
 
1 - 20 of 44 Posts
Top