[brianb]

About a month and a half ago I got a stupid pace ticket on my bike in Kentucky. Said I was doing 55 in a 45. He did not get me on radar and just said he judged my speed by looking at his odometer. bull$hit. (Have witness that heard this)

I am going to fight it but am not sure what to do.
The county I got it in does not even have the record on file yet so they can't even put me on the docket. I thought I would wait until a couple of days before court and make them put me on there and ask for a dismissal.

I also want to file a motion of discovery for certification of the speed odometer, his notes, records for that day, ect.
Do I do this before of after my first time in court? Who do I ask? What are the procedures?

Please help with advise, experience on this subject.
Thankx

 

[nd4spd]

Where in Kentucky? I'm in Somerset.

 

[brianb]

Christian County, about 10 miles from the Tennessee line.

A very rude Kentucky State Police officer.

 

[blue02]

Hopkinsville i guess? Did you get this coming back from Ohio Valley drag strip?

 

[brianb]

Yep in Hopkinsville.

No this time I was just out for a weekend ride. I know some guys up there. Like to let my hair blow sometimes.
No flaming Please!

So, you KY boys have any suggestions, experience in this area?
I know nd4spd has some but not resolved yet.

 

[speedkilz]

Yep questioning the accuracy of the speedometer is probably your best bet. I agree with joaz22 about the subpeonas. That will get pretty tricky without a lawyer or at least advice from one. I would almost bet that there are no records on the speedometer. They come certified from the factory. I know that are department has never had one recertified and some of those cars were getting close to 100,000 mile on them. In my opinion pacing may be worth a warning, but for 10 over, I think its insane to use it to write a ticket.

In addition to the speedometer, you also want to question the methods he used to pace you. How far behind you was he? How far did he follow you? What method did he use to ensure he stayed a constant distance away from you? In a jury trial, all you'll have to do is create that little bit of doubt in their minds. But, be warned, if you lose a jury trial the court costs added to the ticket will probably significantly change the amount you have to pay.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

 

[Someone]

You sure you weren't going 75 in a 45 or more? Maybe he was cutting you some slack.

 

[mxracer95]

No subpoena necessary. Just do an informal discovery. Send a simple letter to the law enforcement agency that issued the ticket requesting the information you want. Send it certified mail so you have proof they received. If they do not supply you the information you go to court and tell it to the judge. He should dismiss the case. Most likely they will supply you with the information you request. I do it all the time.

 

[ProEMTPFF]

Being the 33 y/o sone of a Florida Highway Patrol officer and the fact I'm a Professional Firefighter-Paramedic I deal with cops every day. I'm on shift at the FD writing this. I spoke with my father and several cops today at work. Most Police agencys purchace "Police pakage" patrol cars from the factory. These cars come with factory certified calabrated speedodometers. I check and see if the agency that ticked you buys these vehicles. On another note, I was on a vehicle verses a motorcycle wreck today. The "idiot" on the rocket was riding wreckless and NOT wearing a helmet. Had he been wearing a helmet he would NOT have suffered the head injury, not have to pay a extensive Hospital bill or helocopter bill. Wheather he lives or not is still up in the air. I'll know next shift on Saturday. Other than minor road rash the only major injury was the head. WEAR your helmets! Ok, off my soap box now. Check the certification of the speedometer if it calabrated or not.

 

[brianb]

You sure you weren't going 75 in a 45 or more? Maybe he was cutting you some slack.

Very sure I wasn't going that fast.
If I was he would have put the cuffs on me.

 

[blue02]

I'm pretty sure all State Police cars come with the "Police Pursuit Package", wich would have a factory calabrated speedo. I work for Alcoholic Beverage Control and work with many Troopers, this is how i know about their speedo.
Good luck man.

 

[mercurial]

mxracer is right, no subpoena is necessary. try informal written discovery first, and if they are stingy you can submit formal written discovery to the DA, bottom line is they have to give you any case-relevant documents they posess or plan to use in the case.

Normally I'd avoid arguing over any certification/calibration technicalities BS, most judges aren't going to let you off unless it is VERY CLEAR the measurement device used was defective. 10 mph over is not very much, there are definitely other avenues of defense (how long did he trail you for? did he have to catch up? where was his and your speed in relation to the other cars?)

generally you only want a trial-by-jury if you can apeal to their humanity in some way (cop verbally trashes you on tape, cop beats you, etc). Juries usually are going to have a pretty low aptitude for legal arguements, and are very suseptible to character-painting (and you are a crotch rocket asshole, afterall ). If you wanna escape on technicalities, a judge trial is going to be much better.

 

[dfastr1]

Well I know in Florida cops are good about keeping all there records in order an have them with them in court..
They give the officers here a write up if they do not show up to court or they have to have a doctors note or something like that excusing them.
You know I would take it to court if you have not had many tickets then If the cop shows up an has all his papers then Just ask the judge if he will just withhold the points.You will still have to pay the ticket an court costs.
Just think how many times have you been speeding an not got caught ,,sometimes you got to pay the price to the speeding gods..Good luck...

 

[brianb]

***********UPDATE*************

This is very weird.

I have been trying to get on the court docket to contest my ticket. The citation say my court date would be this Thursday but the KSP has failed to turn in the ticket. The court clerk will not put me on the court docket without the ticket being turned in.
Should I just show up for court ( I don't want a bench warrent if the ticket is turned in later) and try and talk to the judge to get this thrown out? Seems like the judge would have no other choice.

 

[Solidus]

Forget all that discovery crap.........

That's criminal court/ lawyer stuff, if you get that deep you really need a lawyer (ask RLMesq.) . The vast majority of dept's maintain a certification of calibration of speedometers as a rule. We have every vehicle calibrated every 6mos and copies of the calibration cert. are kept on file and in the vehicle. However do call into question the distance followed and the conditions at the time of the stop. Being as a bike is much smaller than a car perception of distance can be distorted. It would seem as though the officer has forgotten to turn in your cite. What you should do is return to the courthouse and get written documentation that you did indeed attempt to set up a date and hold on to that documentation. Also should you show up , I'd plead not guilty , either way the odds favor you . The guy didnt turn in a tic on time maybe he won't go to court either. If you got the tic on an eve. or mid shift dude might just be at home sleep. I never went to court when I used to write regular tics ( dui's and fatals excluded). I was taking a chance but I never got busted either. I figured getting a tic was stress enough so I'd let'em go to court and de-stress by winning. Now I just quit writing them, I'd rather just cuss you out real good if you're a jackwipe. ( No sense messin up the budget cuz someones a road ass.) Good luck and PM me if you need some more.

 

[Wolf-R1]

Not turned in? He must have known that it would be a crapshoot for him to prove it as well.

Just because the speedo might be calibrated doesn't mean that he's an accurate judge of another vehicle's speed.

It used to be that it was illegal for officers (other than Military Police) to clock vehicles in this method. I don't know if it is anymore or what. That was a Federal mandate from what I understand but again...that was years ago and things can change with time.

But if he didn't turn in the ticket you're pretty much off the hook. However, I would show up just to CYA.

Good luck with it all.

 

[Solidus]

That's so funny..............

Wolf I know you're being sincere but there has never been a federal mandate governing pacing vehicles by state and local govmt agencies. And if there were such a mandate , provost units would be affected moreso than locals. As far as the technique , it would be pretty hard to discredit the officer in court if he had all the proper documentation of training and calibration. Unless your last name was Mattlock, Cochran or Bailey. If you are'nt an attourney the best approach to a court issue is the simplistic method of " Just the facts. " getting into motions for suppression, discovery or dismissal is way over the heads of 99% of the general population. Just present the facts not some myth. You'll do ok.

 

[Wolf-R1]

Hmm...that's not the info that I was given but again this was quite a while ago. Whatever the case it may be moot now anyway since it could be changed by now...assuming that I'm right even.

I'm just trying to add another avenue for him to check into at the least.

 

[brianb]

************ THE SAGA CONTINUES************

So I go to court today and the clerk says I cannot see the judge because I am not on the docket.

She burns a copy of my ticket (I probally should not have let her do that but KY constitution say I cannot be compelled to give evidence against myself) and sets up a court date a month from now. WTF!!!

I have to have a good case for dismissal.
1. I showed up on the correct date was ready but state was not ready. ie. no evidence, missing officer.
2. still no ticket turned in by officer.
3. right to speedy trial and due process being violated.

What do ya think?

 

[Wolf-R1]

You're talking to the wrong people....get a fucking lawyer....

I hope you get off. It sounds like you might have a chance now...

I agree. Stop fukking off and go talk to a laywer.