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Discussion Starter #1
I just got back from a group ride. Me and some buddies went and hit some back roads. I rode sweep. There was a guy on a 125cc moped in the ride (his 636 needs the valves adjusted before he starts cutting valve seats). So the 'leader' takes us down a main road to get to the ride (speed limit 70) and bitches on the com about the moped and burns off (we totally could have back roaded to where they wanted to ride). We catch up to the marker. He waves us in. A few minutes later we catch the leader on his mt09 and the tao tao passes him. Since I'm sweep, I have to ride behind him now. He went 10-20 mph through the turns, I shit you not.

How do I explain to him he needs to change out the nut that connects the bars to the seat? I'd try to teach him some craft, but he is too arrogant to listen. He really does need a different machine though. I can tell he's frustrated and not having a good time.

He bowed out when we got back to the gas station and went home.

How do I help this guy?
 

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My group ride lingo sucks.
So you got stuck behind the "leader" who was on an MT-09, and he cannot corner? If that is the case I experienced something kinda similar (though not as extreme) this past season with a friend.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
My group ride lingo sucks.
So you got stuck behind the "leader" who was on an MT-09, and he cannot corner? If that is the case I experienced something kinda similar (though not as extreme) this past season with a friend.
That's about the size of it. I ran sweep because last time we rode I was lead and had to slow down to let him catch up at intersections. It was an informal ride, so no markers, just he and a buddy and I. And he didn't know the roads.

I want to help the guy, but, he is way too arrogant to listen. He is incredibly nervous though and I can tell he isn't having a good time.
 

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If he won't listen or doesn't want to improve, I'm not sure there's much you can do? If he's receptive in any way, running a route repeatedly will at least give him some practice.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I'm thinking about getting some tennis balls and cutting them in half and asking the guys to get back to basics with him, so we can try to salvage a rider before he dumps it and quits.
 

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There is the leader in front and the Sweep in the rear correct? Markets are anyone in the middle of the group?
was the moped/scooter rider part of your group? He slowed somebody up?

what do the tennis ball halves do?

damn I’m old, but I sure am slow. Sorry I’m no help but wished I could pick up what you are laying down.
ride to live
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Leader is supposed to lead. A marker is someone who waits at an intersection and directs the group. The last guy is the sweep or tail.

We wanted to go for a ride. Scheduled it yesterday. Q had to ride his wife's moped because his 636 is down (he is about to seriously damage his valve train).

The guy with the mt09 wanted to go to his stretch of backroads and he wanted to lead. So he took us down a road with a speed limit of 70 knowing the moped would be pinned at 55 (he actually got up to 64 at one point, I was kind of impressed). Then he talked shit on the coms and just burned off. We proceeded to catch up with him and the moped actually passed him. And gapped him by at least a mile and a half by the time we turned back on the main road.

Hopefully that is more clear.

The tennis balls are for low speed drills in a parking lot. Teaching the mt09 guy that he can lean without falling into the great beyond or whatever he thinks is past 5° of lean angle. Figure 8's work for this. While I was at it I was going to get the rest of the guys up there and work on u and j turns (I've seen them at the gas station, they can use the practice) so we don't bruise dudes ego.

The main idea is to keep him riding. He is a real prick. He is extremely conceited. He is willfully ignorant. He is still a rider and he could use some friends. He is a vet, so he is antisocial.

I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

I'm hoping I can help this guy and I'm hoping we can keep some cohesion in the group.



Edit: not j turns. That would be bad. Definitely not j turns. U turns, yes, but not j turns. Tight low speed stuff. Not j turns.
 

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It sounds like you have a good approach in mind - group practice and whatnot. Personally I need more low-speed practice due to a) my riding hiatus and b) changing bike style. I think virtually all riders benefit from practicing such things in controlled environments.

What did MT09 have to say about getting dusted by a 125? If anything? lol years back me and a friend (he on his R6) rode with a couple members from here (not regular posters AFAIK). They were on their R1s (I was on my 09). The bit of straight-line cruising was all together. Then I turned down a fun stretch and we just demolished them. By the end of the ride, one of the guys said, "man...I think I should go back to an R6". Cornering is the toughest (yet most rewarding IMO) aspect of motorcycling.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
The low speed stuff should help the group stay bonded and make the guy not feel counted out of anything. Ego is probably one of his biggest stumbling blocks. That's not just with riding either, I mean in general.

He didn't say anything about not only being passed by the entire group but also a guy on a moped. On the road of his choosing. That he wanted to lead us down. Because he was embarrassed. Instead he chose to cut his riding time short and blame the sun.

I get it. It isn't easy to get started. He's only been riding on the street for a couple of months. He should have stuck around for the rest of the ride. We all had a good time. He could have used the seat time.
 

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Instead he chose to cut his riding time short and blame the sun.
wow

I get it. It isn't easy to get started. He's only been riding on the street for a couple of months. He should have stuck around for the rest of the ride. We all had a good time. He could have used the seat time.
Yeah he needs seat time more than anything, then.
 

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Astronomer not Astrologer
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Drag him to a track day. He will learn more in one day on the track than a years worth of riding with that.
 
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Discussion Starter #12
Man, we are all itching to go. I'm thinking about getting involved with 3:16 as they are as close as I'll get to local. They also have coaches. Then again, I'm thinking about getting involved with a track instead of an org. Harris hills raceway. Again, they have coaches. Hell I wanted to go see Kevin schwantz there last year, but I missed it, because I spent my money on stupid shit like food and insurance and a house.

I'd stand here and tell you that none of us have money to go to the track, but that'd be an excuse. I don't sacrifice to go to the track like I should. I'm reasonably sure he won't either. Another thing he wouldn't have at the track is a good time. He'd likely get offended when he got there, demand his money back and leave when the gave him the first bit of advice.

I'll still run it by him though.
 

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You need to understand that the first thing you learn at a track day is you know nothing about riding a bike fast.... and then the learning begins.

Honestly, you just need to show up with an attitude to have fun. It isn't like anyone on their first go will be faster than the coaches that have been racing for who knows how long. Just have to be willing and ready to learn have fun and ride like you have never ridden before.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Dude, I'm pretty sure you're preaching to the choir here. I mean, man, I know I can ride over the speed limit, but I also understand that I'm not fast. But dude on the mt 09.

So far a what attitude to bring, I don't think it will be possible for me to not have a blast on the track. I also don't think it won't be possible for me to not learn a thing or two.

Anyhow, thanks for telling me to try to get a guy that won't even take the msf and get his endorsement because of the cost to go to the track. I mean, I'm definitely going to suggest it. I doubt he'll bite though.
 

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I know the track organization I ride with offers a try the track option for new riders for free, it is the first two sessions of the day and then you can buy the rest of the day at a reduced cost if you like it. You basically just need to get yourself to the track with the right gear and pass tech. Should look into it for orgs near you.
 
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Why bother riding with this clown?

I ride mostly solo and with or or two people who aren't jerks, I don't need half a dozen people to enjoy a ride.
 

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Reminds me of the can only lead a horse to water... can't make him drink... saying.


Honestly his issue is probably his eyes.... ask him where he is looking.... the answer better be way down the road and through corners... it is probably the hardest thing I still struggle with... usually when I am off pace...I fix where I am looking and I snap back to my quicker pace.


Some times novice riders need a front marker to keep their eyes up. Tell him to do what you do be on your line and so on. Put a gopro on your tail looking back at him, review the tape. Put one on the front looking at him from behind. Evaluate if he is getting off the bike, if he is crossed up and over leaning, see where he is going to the breaks, see if his helmet turns to look through the corner, and so on.

He should also read this article.... let me find it.




Another good one:


If he doesn't want to improve... not much you can do about that...


Though it might help to do any instruction one on one so he doesn't feel like he is getting this as punishment by the group. Just you and him go for a ride stop and chat about what you saw after you asked him how it felt. Come up with a plan for the next segment, so it and chat some more, but asking how he felt and what he saw. Don't tell him he is being slow... don't tell him he is doing it wrong. Tell him some things he is doing right.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Why bother riding with this clown?

I ride mostly solo and with or or two people who aren't jerks, I don't need half a dozen people to enjoy a ride.
I don't know. I mean, we are all friends and he is kind of an outlier. He knows a guy that knows a guy so we took him in. I like projects. I enjoy helping people. To me he seems kind of like a ball of clay I can shape. I want to see if I can help him become a better rider and teach him a little about living. At the end of the day, he is a person. And he rides-ish.
 

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You can't teach people who don't want to learn.

I've ridden with "friends of friends" before who act like (or are) idiots and never rode with them again. Hell, I've left a ride part-way through because on more than one occasion because I didn't want to be associated with the people I was stuck riding with.
 
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