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pavement tester....
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Set rock hard you will just skip over everything. People often make the mistake of tuning everything super hard for harder riding. That's a no no. Ever watch roadracing? WHen they brake the front end slams down onto the fender, and when they accelerate just the opposite happens...

A great set up is hard to find if you dont know what you are doing. First get your sag set and then work on 1 thing at a time. Take notes that way you will know how each adjustment has affected your ride. If you simply crank the compression up, along with rebound, raise the forks, and adjust the preload all at once, and the bike rides worse than it did-then what adjustments made the difference?

I'm no expert for sure but the suspension of your sportbike is one of the "gray areas" that alot of us are lacking knowledge in. It might be what gets you 3 seconds on the track, or helps you keep up with your riding buddy... Study up!

Here is something that might help:

The Ultimate Suspension Tuning/Trouble Shooting Guide

Forks

1. Bottoms, Too Soft, Wallows
Ask Questions: Under what kind of conditions?
Does it feel good otherwise?
Does it feel too soft everywhere?
A. Oil Level too low.
B. Not enough low speed compression damping
C. Not enough high speed compression damping
D. Spring rate too soft
E. Not enough Spring Pre-Load
F. Dirt in valving, broken valve, bur on piston or shim
G. Damping rod bushing worn out – (Pre 95 KYB problem)
H. Compression valve o-ring broken
I. Damping rod not attached to cap

2. Too Stiff – Deflects, Harsh, Nervous, Twitchy
Ask Question: Everywhere or just on the square edge bumps?
A. Too much compression damping adjustment – HS & LS
B. Too much compression damping internally – HS
C. Spring rate too stiff
D. Too much low speed rebound damping
E. Oil level too high
F. See “Sticky”

3. Rides low (Dynamic) – Oversteers
A. Spring rate too soft
B. Not enough pre-load
C. Not enough low speed compression damping
D. Increase low speed damping adjustment, valving stack or go to a single stage valving stack
E. Low speed rebound too high
F. Anything that makes the rear higher than the front

4. Rides High – Doesn’t Turn, Understeers, Pushes
A. Too much Preload
B. Spring rate too high or stiff
C. Too much low speed compression damping
D. Rear riding too low
E. Forks air pumping up – replace seals
F. Anything that makes the rear lower than the front
G. See “Sticky”


5. Dives Under Braking (Static)
A. IT SHOULD!
B. On braking, the TOTAL dive is controlled by spring forces (Rate, Pre-Load, Air) only, NOT DAMPING
C. See “Rides Low”

6. Sticky Forks
A. Axle clamp not centered – align tubes
B. Bad fork brace adjustment
C. Seal not broken in or poor after market design
D. Seal not lubricated
E. Poor quality oil or wrong viscosity
F. Bent tubes, bent axle, bent triple clamps
G. Dented or bent sliders
H. Poor bushing design on upside down forks
I. Outer tube anodizing worn through
J. Forks air pumping – replace seals
K. Triple clamp too tight
L. Misaligned fork tube height – GMD
M. Forks not broken in – (twin chamber Showa)
N. Damaged or worn bushings
O. Metal in bushings
i. Pre-Load washers not located properly
ii. Aluminum Pre-Load washers (what were those engineers smoking)
iii. Steel spring spacer directly on aluminum cap
iv. Bottom-out system needs chamfering – KYB
v. Fork caps “shedding” on installation
P. Cartridge rod bushing too tight
Q. Spring guide rubbing on ID of spring or guide growing from solvent
R. Fork spring OD too large

7. Doesn’t Turn
A. See “Rides High”
B. Rear end rides too low
C. Spring Rate too stiff
D. Too much Pre-Load
E. Too much Tire Air Pressure
F. Poor tire type/compound
G. Riding Style
i. Not weighting the front end
ii. Elbow down riding – Dirt
iii. Sitting too far back – Dirt
H. Seat too low
I. Bars too high
J. See “Sticky”

8. Feels Lose
A. Not enough low speed rebound damping
B. Not enough high speed rebound damping
C. Damping rod bushings worn out – KYB typical
D. Steering bearings lose or worn
E. Swing arm pivot or linkage bearings loose or worn
F. Tire pressure too low
G. Chassis flex
H. Worn out rebound piston ring
I. Worn out fork oil
J. Cavitation

9. Headshakes
A. Steep fork rate or not enough fork trail
B. Chassis not straight – GMD
C. Chain adjuster off creating misalignment of wheels
D. Fork Flex, Chassis Flex, Swingarm flex – Steering damper
E. Fork oil level too high
F. Bottom out mechanism too long
G. Not enough low speed rebound damping
H. Too much rebound damping
I. Too much high speed compression damping
J. Tire air pressure too high
K. Poor tire selection
L. Tire not mounted correctly or cord not straight
M. Wheel out of balance
N. Brake rotor bent
O. Worn out or lose steering head bearing – tighten to that they drag slightly
P. Anything that make the front end lower than the rear
Q. Death grip on the bars
R. See “Sticky”

10. Deflects on square edge bumps
A. Too much high speed compression damping
B. Spring rate too stiff
C. Too much Pre-Load
D. Too much low speed compression damping
E. Yeah sure see “Sticky”

11. Leaky Seals – Wheelies do not and will not cause seals to leak!
A. Nicks in the tubes
B. Bent tube
C. Worn bushings
D. Improper installation
E. Old Seals
F. Fork tube too smooth


More info:
http://www.2wf.com/articles/how_to/673D0947-3FD0-417D-9671-8AD39F35A8E9.asp
 

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Here's a good question:
Take almost any stock streetbike. When revalving the suspension for race use, what are the typical changes? Getting the spring rates correct is a given, but what about the valves? Race Tech seems to be sticking with the high-flow style valve while several other companies prefer a low-flow valve. Which design is really better?

More importantly is the shim shuffle. Say I were to stick with my stock valves, but shuffle the shims a little. What setups are more preferrable (front/rear)? Adding more high-speed or low-speed compression? Adding more high-speed or low-speed rebound? Using a multi-stage valve stack?

I really want to do some changing to my NSR suspension, but not sure where to start. As for the R1, does anyone have stock suspension on thier 99 R1 that has just had the shim stacks changed? What did you come up with for shim stacks?
 

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It's all about Attitude
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Wrench said:
Here's a good question:
Take almost any stock streetbike. When revalving the suspension for race use, what are the typical changes? Getting the spring rates correct is a given, but what about the valves? Race Tech seems to be sticking with the high-flow style valve while several other companies prefer a low-flow valve. Which design is really better?

More importantly is the shim shuffle. Say I were to stick with my stock valves, but shuffle the shims a little. What setups are more preferrable (front/rear)? Adding more high-speed or low-speed compression? Adding more high-speed or low-speed rebound? Using a multi-stage valve stack?

I really want to do some changing to my NSR suspension, but not sure where to start. As for the R1, does anyone have stock suspension on thier 99 R1 that has just had the shim stacks changed? What did you come up with for shim stacks?
The biggest problem with the stock valves is they aren't all the same. so tuning the "stack" will have a different effect on different bikes. Solution: make a valve that flows the same amount of oil for all the bikes and then you just need to figure out what shim stack will work.
Will
 

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Did the wheel come up?
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126 Posts
Hey guys. This may sound gay,but what is SAG?
I'm new to the whole susp. thing. I followed some
other peoples sup. settings. It feels diff.,but I have know
idea if it's good. I have a RED 04 R1. I am 5'8 and 180.
I used a set up from a 6' 190lb guys setup. I do not
understand what REB. COMP. PRELOAD realy means.
If somone can please give me some schooling.
 

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SYMPTOMS ------- While riding through rural backroads today at a blistering pace the bike soaked up the bumps and held its line like it was on rails. All I had to do was point and go.Even going over the gnarliest sections with the bike leaned over it was stable.

Diagnosis---- Ohlins forks and shock once dialed in are unbelivable.The BST carbon wheels with fresh pilpt powers put it to the pavement. Unbelivable.:riding
 

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4yamahas said:
SYMPTOMS ------- While riding through rural backroads today at a blistering pace the bike soaked up the bumps and held its line like it was on rails. All I had to do was point and go.Even going over the gnarliest sections with the bike leaned over it was stable.

Diagnosis---- Ohlins forks and shock once dialed in are unbelivable.The BST carbon wheels with fresh pilpt powers put it to the pavement. Unbelivable.:riding
:iamwithst are we just spoilt or what????:lol :lol :lol :sneaky
 

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...
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kneedragger - this is useful, thanks! do you have symptoms/ causes posted for shock somewhere? that link to 2wf doesn't work at this point.
 

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kneedragger - this is useful, thanks! do you have symptoms/ causes posted for shock somewhere? that link to 2wf doesn't work at this point.
:dundun: he posted that in 2002 and hasn't even logged onto this forum in 4 years!:2bitchsla
 

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...
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Admittedly I hadn't checked "last log in date" for OP before posing question.

It would be sweet if anyone has offline copy of the original 2wf article this seems to have come from - particularly if it shows shock symptoms/ possible cures.

Suspension is a black art and I try to leave it to the experts, but can't afford a pit crew when I club race and at minimum this list is really useful to give my suspension tuners better feedback.

Exhaustive shock mis-adjustment symptoms list anyone?
 

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Admittedly I hadn't checked "last log in date" for OP before posing question.

It would be sweet if anyone has offline copy of the original 2wf article this seems to have come from - particularly if it shows shock symptoms/ possible cures.

Suspension is a black art and I try to leave it to the experts, but can't afford a pit crew when I club race and at minimum this list is really useful to give my suspension tuners better feedback.

Exhaustive shock mis-adjustment symptoms list anyone?
Get yourself a copy of this...
 

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Get yourself a copy of this...
That's a great book, and was an inspiration for me to write some info that's somewhere around about suspension setup. But if you want a really interesting (and slightly contrasting) view, look for "Race Tech's Motorcycle Suspension Bible" by Paul Thede and Lee Parks. I've been finding it an amazing and clarifying source of information. Not as in depth as Tony Foale's book, but a slightly different perspective on things from Andrew Trevitt's book. Although for the people like me that need more, there is always "Twiddling the knobs" and "An Introduction to Sportbike Suspension" by Dave Moss for those that need video and case studies.

I could think of a few others, but I'm tired. Let me know when you are done with the above list and I'll list a few other :lol
 

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Track time :flex:
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Why am I not sub to this? :lol
 
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