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The engine needs to be made to handle that much ethanol. So if you care about your bike at all...you wouldn't even be considering putting e85 in
 

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The fuel sytem components have to be designed to use it. You cannot and should not use it unless your vehicle says so in the gas cap opening. It will deteriorate certain parts of normal systems.

This is why the AMA is trying to stop 15% ethanol. The EPA has publicly said 15% is harmful to motorcycel engines. But their stance is to keep pushing for even higher content levels.

Pretty sure no sportbike on the market can use it
 

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I've used it a couple of times in my old 2003 Ranger... it's cheaper but you get less fuel mileage. So it's not cost effective enough for me to use.

And like everyone else said you can't use it in vehicles that are not setup for it.
 

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Hope is what makes us Human.
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Glad to see someone a lot more cheapooo then I :lol:
 

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Boosted 03 R1 = FUN
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Discussion Starter #7
BTW, I'm running full E85 in my bike, have been for awhile. Just want to get other's opinions on it, basically a learning thread for anyone else considering it.
 

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you lose
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BIKE HAS TO BE TUNED FOR IT...with that said on turbo application or higher compression engine can take advantage of its greater resistance to detonation...however....THE BIKE HAS TO BE TUNED FOR IT...and have a fuel system of handling it.
 

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Yeah youre probably doing some harm to that engine.
Remember a fi system on a bike isnt monitoring spark knock like a car does. If its knocking (detonation) it will have a short life. Hence why a tune on a dyno is so important.

Plus all the seals and other parts of your duel system is being degraded. Car companies warn against using it in vehicles not specifically made to use it.
 

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Boosted 03 R1 = FUN
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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
I want this to be a learning thread, if you have questions, ask, knowledge, share.

Based on my experience with E85 and E47 (half and half with 93 pump gas which is 99 octane)

On a stock fuel system I wouldn't recommend it, you are correct, the rubber lines and incompatible materials will degrade and eventually fail. Without a tune, you will likely not gain any power NA, you can throw a lot of timing at it and maybe gain some power if NA, but you're going to need a good dyno tune with a PC3, or use a PC5 with autotune and a POD-300 for logging like i do. No need for dyno tune if you know what you're doing (I do).

Often everyone just takes the general things they've heard on the web that its bad, and bad for your bike. Well in a sense, if you're using rubber lines and no tune, it'll degrade the lines over time, and it can run very very lean, and lower mileage by about 30%. However, the benefits of it being cheap, high octane, knock suppression, chemically cooling the air going past the injectors, and awesome with high compression and timing are pretty awesome if someone was willing to try it out.

The downside? Initial cost of switching shit over to compatible material, tune, and limited availability. It sucks because I'm limited on how far i can go away from my fill up stations now.

What is needed to switch:

Compatible fuel pump, fuel lines made of of compatible material listed below, compatible fuel pressure regulator with return, larger injectors are favorable but I know a trick and am using my 2003 stock injectors (no its not upping the fuel pressure i run a base of 55psi), and most importantly a good tune.

Some info:

E85 (105 octane) is very very forgiving on its AFR if you are off a bit, most likely it still will not knock, its 105 octane, 85% corn alcohol. You are more likely to fuel knock if you go too rich. It has a natural chemical cooling effect on the air coming into the ITBs.

E47 (99 octane) is great because you don't need to add about 30% more fuel like on full E85, more like 15% which is doable in most cases without going larger injectors or modifying stock ones, but you'll have to mix equal halves of 93 and E85 at the pump, not that difficult just two card swipes. I did this for years on my daily car (yes it needed it).


Overall, what am i running. I am running full -6AN 316 stainless lines, fittings, walbro inline fuel pump, rising rate 1:1 FPR (55psi base), stock injectors modified by myself, PC5, autotune, POD-300, and have street tuned the bike running 11.7:1 on the gas scale or .80 lambda on full boost, otherwise 13:1 cruising. Its a turbocharged 03, non intercooled (chemical intercooling thanks to E85) on 7psi low boost or 11 psi high boost. Stock compression, not pulling any timing and it runs absolutely wonderful. E85 loves high compression and boost and timing. You have to try damn hard to get it to knock honestly. I've run 25* (93 octane would only hold about 17* safely) of advance on my 67mm turbo car from mid range up to redline and it never ever knocked and it made a TON of torque.

Runs just fine: https://youtu.be/Jz6jPKc6tdE


 

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great write up 03turbo. dead on. my tahoe is e85 compatible but it doesnt make sense financially for me to run it. the only person i know running it is a co-worker who has an 04 lightning. it is set up for it and it allows him to run more boost. the vehicle has to be tuned for it. otherwise problems will arise.
 

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Unless your fuel system is made to run it and your tune allows you to do so, there is no point and you'll probably do more harm than good.
 

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I've helped a friend convert this car to run it before and that thing is a monster!

I can see a bike running it. No different than car in the mechanical engine aspect. Just like what was mentioned.

Upgrade lines, pump, and Injectors then a tune and you're golden.
 

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GO SKERS!!
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My friend runs it in his zx12.

Main drawbacks is fact it uses 30% more fuel and stations cab be hard to find if you ride your bike.

Been running e85 in a STI and Lightning for several years and no issues.
 

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Another plus is when it's the middle of summer and hot as hell when your riding your not going to loose anywhere near as much power using e85 versus gas.
 

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go go juice gonna make me win
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hmm, seems like a bike fuel system would be similar to car fuel system. only thing i HAD to do specific for ethanol was special orings in the fuel pump and gigantic injectors. the fuel line i used and rails and regulators and all that was the same stuff i was using whether i use ethanol or not. need a tune. i only get 100-110 miles before gas light comes on, i'm not sure how much less i'd get on e85 but i don't think i'd like getting so much less mileage. and i have to be careful with the power it's got now, getting so much extra would almost be useless, on the track anyway.

i don't personally fine the gains to come anywhere near to outweighing the negatives. for a car it's huge, especially with fi. but a bike, not as much.
 

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My experience with all of my vehicles, is that e-anything is BAD! I haven't run pump gas in my '09 R1 due to my experience with damage from it to my vintage machines ('85 Honda VF1000R, '85 V-Max, and my wife's pre-2000 trail & dirt bikes). The problem is that it destroys the O-rings and gaskets in the carbs, fuel cocks, and even the gas cap. I just spent $850 to do a total rebuild on the carbs on the V-Max, and I'm lucky I didn't lose the bike! It was running fine, but two of the bowl gaskets failed, and it poured a half tank of gas onto the engine.

Supposedly the newer fuel systems are made to withstand ethanol, but it remains to be seen, IMHO. Meantime I run ethanol-free gas in all the bikes, mowers, etc.


Charles
 

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go go juice gonna make me win
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In old vehicles, ya. Not a good idea. But as far as with new vehicles, nothing remains to be seen. It's proven. Ethanol had been in gas for a while now and I've never heard on anyone having issues in newer cars. However, the moisture problem will always be an issue. As long as fuel doesn't sit for a long time it won't be a problem.
 
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