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pavement tester....
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Discussion Starter #1
OK, here is the deal.

I'll probably be financing my own race team, if not this season in 2005 for sure. I'll be buying the bike, and sprint racing as well as endurance racing (if the schedules allow it) to get as much seat time as possible. I'm thinking an 03 R6 or something so i can be as competitive as possible. I know its all rider blah blah, but frankly an F2 wont pull down the front straight as fast as I want it to.

Here is the thing, of course I'll be forking out the cash for everything involved in the sprint races (fees, tires etc etc). As far as endurance racing goes I know I'll split everything with my teammate(s). However, what about wrecks? Obviously whoever is on the bike at the time of the wreck should be responsible for paying for the damages? So it would seem. So basically, I shouldnt go racing with some broke dudes who cant afford to fork over the cash in one week to fix the bike if it gets wrecked. Am I right in assuming this?
 

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DAMN YOU SHANE
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14,362 Posts
it depends on what caused the reck you hve to look at it that way if you were on it and you broke the subframe while ridng and he gets on and wrecks because fo the subframe it isnt all yoru fault
 

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THEY CALLED ME SWEETNESS!!!!!!
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6,538 Posts
Personally, I think the risks (damages to the bike) should have the same split as the profit. With any business venture, you have to be prepared to assume a certain level of risk. "Technically," the guy riding the bike is the person responsible for allowing the team to make a profit. (without the rider, you won't race) So, why should he get stuck with the bill if and when the shit hits the fan?

Just my opinion....
 

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Has anyone seen my ratchet?
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25,747 Posts
R1Fanatic said:
Personally, I think the risks (damages to the bike) should have the same split as the profit. With any business venture, you have to be prepared to assume a certain level of risk. "Technically," the guy riding the bike is the person responsible for allowing the team to make a profit. (without the rider, you won't race) So, why should he get stuck with the bill if and when the shit hits the fan?

Just my opinion....

Well I thought I was with stupid, until I realized that KneeDragger was footing the bill for the entire team from the beginning, so they are not starting out with equal investments. In that case making an agreement in writing with the other rider to pay for any damages seems fair to me. You do need to ask yourself will this other rider, ride to his maximum potential with this hanging on his shoulders. I think it really depends on the other rider.
 

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pavement tester....
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7,282 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
R1Fanatic said:
Personally, I think the risks (damages to the bike) should have the same split as the profit. With any business venture, you have to be prepared to assume a certain level of risk. "Technically," the guy riding the bike is the person responsible for allowing the team to make a profit. (without the rider, you won't race) So, why should he get stuck with the bill if and when the shit hits the fan?

Just my opinion....
true, but if I highside and cause $2000 worth of damage, I'm not going to ask him to pitch in because he had nothing to do with the wreck. I think the same should go for him.

Besides that, at this level there really is no profit. Just finishing is good enough, and winning might be worth only a few contengency $$$.

Thats really why I might just go it alone. Keep the cost for myself and just suck it up.
 

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THEY CALLED ME SWEETNESS!!!!!!
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6,538 Posts
yamahog said:
Well I thought I was with stupid, until I realized that KneeDragger was footing the bill for the entire team from the beginning, so they are not starting out with equal investments. In that case making an agreement in writing with the other rider to pay for any damages seems fair to me. You do need to ask yourself will this other rider, ride to his maximum potential with this hanging on his shoulders. I think it really depends on the other rider.
Well, that's why I don't think it's a good idea for Kneedragger to foot the entire bill. EVERYONE must come to the table with something. i.e. The rider must come with his bike, the mechanics with their tools and expertise, and if Kneedragger is just going to be the invester, all he needs to bring is the startup capital to get the ball rolling.

The easiest way would be to set up the team where everyone puts up an equal share of cash/equipment, and start from there. I learned a long time ago to never do business with poor people.....
 

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THEY CALLED ME SWEETNESS!!!!!!
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6,538 Posts
KneeDragger77 said:
Besides that, at this level there really is no profit. Just finishing is good enough, and winning might be worth only a few contengency $$$.

Thats really why I might just go it alone. Keep the cost for myself and just suck it up.
My pops always taught me that if it doesn't make dollars, it doesn't make sense. :no If you just want to start a race team for fun/recreation, that's different. But, if you want to truly take the race team to the "next level," then you need to work with people who have their finances in order.
I just can't see setting up a race team and dealing with all of the headaches associated with it.....for free? :dunno
 

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Has anyone seen my ratchet?
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25,747 Posts
R1Fanatic said:
Well, that's why I don't think it's a good idea for Kneedragger to foot the entire bill. EVERYONE must come to the table with something. i.e. The rider must come with his bike, the mechanics with their tools and expertise, and if Kneedragger is just going to be the invester, all he needs to bring is the startup capital to get the ball rolling.

The easiest way would be to set up the team where everyone puts up an equal share of cash/equipment, and start from there. I learned a long time ago to never do business with poor people.....

Now :iamwithst
 

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pavement tester....
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7,282 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
R1Fanatic said:
[B. I learned a long time ago to never do business with poor people..... [/B]
quote of the day!:iamwithst


yea, then the issue is that we all have partial ownership of a bike and a team. I dont know anyone well enough to do that just yet. Like I said, I'll have to front alot of capitol in the beginning to get started, but thats a given.

I mean, if I get an offer from a doctor that wants to run endurance with me, and is prepared to write me a check at the track for any damages then what the heck.

:thumbup
 

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THEY CALLED ME SWEETNESS!!!!!!
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6,538 Posts
KneeDragger77 said:
true, but if I highside and cause $2000 worth of damage, I'm not going to ask him to pitch in because he had nothing to do with the wreck. I think the same should go for him.
then why have a team? Teams share the victories, and they should share the defeats (or wrecks).
Let's say the rider wrecks the teams bike, and doesn't have the money to pay for the repairs. Are the other team members supposed to just wait on hold until he comes up with the money? That doesn't seem very efficient to me.
As we all know, crashes are almost guaranteed at some point or another. That's why it's so important for the team to have some type of fund that specifically deals with repairing the bike in time for the next race.

Scenario:

Let's say the team is in 1st place mid season, but all of a sudden, the rider wrecks the bike. If he is the only person who's responsible for paying the repair bill, the team is screwed until he comes up with the cash.....assuming he's able to.
Now, the bike isn't ready for the next round, so you miss out on points. Next race comes along, still no bike....miss out on more points. See where I'm going with this?
 

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Forum Moderator
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3,957 Posts
split wrecks all ways.. there is a reason you are racing as a team.. not only is it for endurance racing but to financially hold the entire team together till the end of the season..

Just make sure you dont get guys that ride carelessly... a fund at the start of the season is also a good idea..

that being said... if you are using a bike for endurance racing... you SHOULD NOT! use it for goin solo... unless it's your bike and your team has a "backup" bike
 

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02 for sale
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unless you are looking to be a major team in FUSA or AMA, more than likely will not make any sort of profit whatsoever. Even if you win, the cintigency money would barely cover your cost when it comes to fees, tires, equipments, and the likes. I think you should approach it in the mindset of having fun and hopefully not go broke in the process; winning would be icing on the cake.

If both you and your partner are ready to put out whatever is required to be competitive (ie. right equipment and lots of spare parts...and above all time.) then you might as well just race on your own. Endurnace racing is very expensive (tires cost a fortune...race fuel ain't cheap either. and not to mention you need some help in the pits.)

I
 

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Who's your Daddy!!
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5,465 Posts
Most of us know the almighty $$$$ can make or break ANY relationship (even family apart).

If your speaking of endurance racing as a team, then once a team always a team! you reap the rewards and accept your defeats as a team no more no less, hence the costs are handled as a team simply because you know up front its a dangerous endevour and be it a mechanical failure, another rider/s, oil, perhaps even something medical happens while in the seat and a rider crashes, hell the list goes forever and ever.............

BD
 

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pavement tester....
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Discussion Starter #14
Big Daddy said:
Most of us know the almighty $$$$ can make or break ANY relationship (even family apart).
BD
true true..

I guess I'll just have to get a factory ride then in ama superbike. THat will solve all the issues!

:yesnod


:bs


yea, money is the root of all evil. I guess just keeping things solo will keep it kosher to. Nobody to blame but myself. I guess I'll be sticking to sprints too. Heck, I dont care if I come in last in the 3rd wave, as long as I finish and have fun. That is what club racing is all about right?

Of course with more experience will come better finishes I suppose:dunno
 

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Who's your Daddy!!
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5,465 Posts
KneeDragger77 said:
true true..

I guess I'll just have to get a factory ride then in ama superbike. THat will solve all the issues!

:yesnod


:bs


yea, money is the root of all evil. I guess just keeping things solo will keep it kosher to. Nobody to blame but myself. I guess I'll be sticking to sprints too. Heck, I dont care if I come in last in the 3rd wave, as long as I finish and have fun. That is what club racing is all about right?

Of course with more experience will come better finishes I suppose:dunno
Having fun with other racers is the nuts! and if along the way you improve your abilities___all the better i say.

BD
 

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02 for sale
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591 Posts
You will find out that club racers (those that pay everything out of their pockets) are almost like family, you fight like ennemies on the track, but as soon as the race is over everyone is willing to help out each other...sounds corny but it's fun when you go month after month and you start recognizing the people there. Most racers are willing to help on another out with set-ups, even spare parts when you crash to make the race start....happened to me.
 

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No PC BS!
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Try to get some sponsors to help you out instead of footing the bill on your own. Take them all, large and small. As your team becomes successful, you'll get better and better sponsors. Even at the club level I have a hard time dropping $1500 a weekend just for entry, tires, fuel..... I'll need sponsors to keep going this year.

Doug
 

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pavement tester....
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Discussion Starter #18
yea, gotta get some sponsors. I'm thinking the first year it will be minimal. Gotta show them what kind of exposure I can give them and etc etc...

You are right about the cash. I think I planned my budget for one year (8 weekends with 2 races each weekend) at somewhere between $10,000 to $15,000. That includes getting a bike too...
 

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Ride it, don't eat it...
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Sorry that this isn't bike related, but it is racing and team related: SCCA Club racing a GT-2 class Mazda RX-7 in a three hour indurance race, I was the first of three drivers, the owner of the car only wanted to drive the last half hour. I drove the first stint and after 1 hr. 20 minutes, the whole left front suspension broke off in a high speed left(turn 6 at Sears Point Raceway.) The wheel, axle, brake rotor/caliper, strut left the car and left me without brakes or steering...Wham! into the mountain side on the outside of the corner. Upon inspection of why it broke(lower strut bolts came loose and the owner didn't safetywire them!) I ended up paying only about $1000 to him for damages, which was more out of courtesy since it cost about $4k to fix all the bodywork, etc. He said it was his fault for not locktite and safety wiring them, as both right and left side struts were practically finger tight after running the car for less than half the race distance. What a shame too since the owner didn't qualify the car that morning and I had started last out of 65 cars and was in third place when it all went wrong....
 

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My RR Eats your R1!
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KneeDragger77 said:
yea, gotta get some sponsors. I'm thinking the first year it will be minimal. Gotta show them what kind of exposure I can give them and etc etc...

You are right about the cash. I think I planned my budget for one year (8 weekends with 2 races each weekend) at somewhere between $10,000 to $15,000. That includes getting a bike too...

Your budget is close if you take out the initial cost of the bike and any crash damage. You must also budget in practice days if you are truly serious. A typical race weekend cost for racing a 600:

$350-tires(At least!)
$350-Entry fees+Friday and Saturday practice
$100-Gas to get to the races
$100-Food and misc.

$800 for a typical 3 day weekend(note no lodging-I sleep at the track!)

Figure at least 2 track days and a set of tires between race weekends(another $750 easy) equals an average of $1550 X 8 race weekends = $12,400

A NEW R6 properly set up:

$8000-bike
$1000-Penske
$600-Bodywork
$350-Rearsets
$150-Clipons
$750-Front forks
$750-Extra Wheels
$100-Brake lines
$200-520 Conversion and gearing
PC3-$250

Total $12,150 and you haven't gotten it painted yet.



$24,450 for a "Typical" race season as long as you own all the gear already, own the stands, have all your tools, have a race trailer/tow rig, and don't crash too much. If you don't do ANY trackdays in between races, be prepared to be spanked come race day. The guys that are serious are doing a LOT more that a couple track days in between race weekends. I am NOT trying to discourage you, but I think you may want to look at your budget a little more closely.


Where is your math coming from???
 
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