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Just Me.
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No, I got the context. I believe that seeing the line/reference markers and effectively hitting them lap after lap would play a role into being consistent. I personally know I've not been as consistent as I could be attributable to not looking at my reference points every single corner (for different reasons). I may miss one or two per lap, and that's something I have to work on.

I guess for seasoned veterans, it is second nature.
 
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Astronomer not Astrologer
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Nothing to really add here...

However, I find that when I am by myself I slow way down. Like 5 seconds a lap....I am consistent (with in few tenths) at that pace. When I have someone who I know is riding close to my PB pace I can latch on and run a few laps at that pace and one of two things will happen. I will catch them and then ride their pace.... or they run away from me and I fall back to my oh hum comfortable slow pace on my own again.

When I am on my own the slow down voice is louder.... when I am working on keeping up with a buddy I know I can keep pace with... the let's go get em voice takes over... the funny bit is neither pace is uncomfortable or scary so it doesn't feel like I am pushing. In fact when I try and push on my own... it feels faster but the lap time begs to differ... hahaha
 

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An R1 kinda day!
2015 Yamaha YZF R1 Raven Edition
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926 Posts
As a street rider, I got no dog in the fight when it comes to track.

I just took a poke at it.

I learn from you guys every day.
 

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Venom X/O
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By the time I’ve hit the apex of a turn I’ve already looked past the turn and am figuring my line on corner exit has already been established. The absolute main thing that messes my consistency is missing a brake marker or hitting the marker but missing the correct braking strat. A missed corner entry due to braking messes up the turn I’m entering, the corner drive, and if the next turn is close enough the following turn is usually compromised.

things that are second nature are lap line, corner exit, throttle application, and body position. I always stay on the race line because speed or vision doesn’t affect the line, and ive ran it so many times when a stain isn’t there I notice it. When I’m laying in bed the night beforeI go out I run laps in my head and analyze when I can. Always watching video and breaking down where I can improve
 

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Astronomer not Astrologer
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An awesome CR friend allways says.....you can't go fast on crappy lines......
 

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Astronomer not Astrologer
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6 days out of this rear. The only indicator is on the right and left edge.... didn't complain until the last session.

 

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Vision doesn’t help with throttle or being on line
I think it's essential actually.

When you’re already on line, and established riding, vision doesn’t keep you there, it’s already second nature. What misti is asking is what skill gets you there consistently. The vision is already established.

Youre out of the context of the question. The conversation is “what makes you consistent?” and my response is braking. Butter said vision and I disagreed.
I think you might be assuming that everyone is already on line and that being on line is second nature. Consistency means being able to hit the same reference points (whether they are for turn in, apex, exit, or braking) over and over again. In order to do that, wouldn't you need to first utilize exceptional visual skills to pick, locate and aim for those RP's consistently?

No, I got the context. I believe that seeing the line/reference markers and effectively hitting them lap after lap would play a role into being consistent. I personally know I've not been as consistent as I could be attributable to not looking at my reference points every single corner (for different reasons). I may miss one or two per lap, and that's something I have to work on.

I guess for seasoned veterans, it is second nature.
Yes, what I think as well. I think the assumptions are that people already have their RP's and lines picked out and that they can be on-line most of the time, in that case, missing a braking reference point might screw up your consistency more than something else.....but I think for most people, they lack the initial skills of picking good solid RP's and then they lack the ability to flow from one RP to the next seamlessly.

In reality, you are only as good as your visual skills.

That being said, how many RP's would you want for any given corner? What makes a good Reference Point?
 

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Venom X/O
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I think it's essential actually.



I think you might be assuming that everyone is already on line and that being on line is second nature. Consistency means being able to hit the same reference points (whether they are for turn in, apex, exit, or braking) over and over again. In order to do that, wouldn't you need to first utilize exceptional visual skills to pick, locate and aim for those RP's consistently?



Yes, what I think as well. I think the assumptions are that people already have their RP's and lines picked out and that they can be on-line most of the time, in that case, missing a braking reference point might screw up your consistency more than something else.....but I think for most people, they lack the initial skills of picking good solid RP's and then they lack the ability to flow from one RP to the next seamlessly.

In reality, you are only as good as your visual skills.

That being said, how many RP's would you want for any given corner? What makes a good Reference Point?
If you don’t have reference points as second nature, why on earth would you be trying to stay within 10ths of a second.
Consistency is key sure, but that’s apples to oranges. If you’re still working on fundamentals the last thing you worry about is lap times
 

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My question was this: "What do you think is the skill MOST responsible for helping with accurate lines and consistent lap times?"

You think it's braking, that's cool. I think it has to do more with visual skills. (which helps determine how good your braking can be.)

Vision is responsible for giving you information about your location, where you are, where you are going, and what to do when you get there. First of all you need to have solid reference points to let you know where to aim for and second, you need to know exactly when to move your eyes from one point to the next in order to create a smooth flow of information coming in which then translates to a smooth flow of information going out. By having a solid idea of where you want to brake, when to look into the corner, what to look at, when to move your eyes through the corner and when to look at the exit, all the mechanical aspects of riding (braking, throttle, shifting etc) can be done seamlessly. Any disruption in that visual flow of information can cause those outputs to become choppy and inconsistent. Moto GP riders can hit the same exact spot on the track lap after lap after lap and I think that has to do with their exceptional visual skills more than just their braking ability.

In general I think your riding can only be as good as your visual skills and any improvement in those will help with overall consistancy in your riding. For some riders, this will be just beginning with the fundamentals of finding and using reference points but for other seasoned riders and racers, it comes down to slight changes in when and where they look and finite improvements on the fundamentals. Fundamentals never lose their importance and can always be worked on and improved.

My riding improves the most/quickest and becomes the most consistent when I focus on my visuals. If I go to a track for the first time, like when I raced AMA at Daytona and had never ridden the track before, I start with finding RP's and drawing the track. I had one day to learn the track before qualifying the following day. I looked at splits and focussed on the areas where I was down the most time, there I picked more RP's and focussed on the flow of my eyes and what I was seeing. I improved upon my vision looking forward further and seeing more of the track to either side and looking into the corners sooner, all of this helped with smoothing out my braking and setting my entry speed consistently. I do this for any new track and also for tracks I know well and for areas where I want to find more time.

What happens to your sense of control of the motorcycle when you don't feel confident in where you are or where you are going on track?
 

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Venom X/O
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I think you’re asking the wrong question. What you’re asking is similar to “what is the best way to get oxygen to the brain.” There really isn’t one best way because you can’t do one thing without the other. You cannot be consistent without braking, you cannot be consistent without correct throttle application, you cannot be consistent without reference points, etc. they all go hand-in-hand and so what really is the best is honestly a matter of opinion. The correct question would be something like “what are some of the most important things to remain consistent with lap times.”

you take opinion out of the equation with that question.
 

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I actually wanted an opinion, hence the reason for my question and all opinions are valid. Mine is just different than yours.

I agree with tons of what you are saying, that so many skills are inter-related and that there are lots of things responsible for creating consistent lap times-braking, throttle control, RP's, shifting etc....

I wanted to hear from people about what they thought was THE most important aspect. (and maybe it differs from one person to the next.) All good. And sorry for the late reply, my husband got smashed up in a gnarly motocross crash so I've been focussed on taking care of him and the kids.
 

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I think you’re asking the wrong question. What you’re asking is similar to “what is the best way to get oxygen to the brain.” There really isn’t one best way because you can’t do one thing without the other. You cannot be consistent without braking, you cannot be consistent without correct throttle application, you cannot be consistent without reference points, etc. they all go hand-in-hand and so what really is the best is honestly a matter of opinion. The correct question would be something like “what are some of the most important things to remain consistent with lap times.”

you take opinion out of the equation with that question.
I agree with this 100%
 

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entry speed is the hardest part. the best go wide all the time

imagine a ABS computer that can control braking on either front caliper in the corners
 

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What? Go wide all the time? What does that even mean? Not all corners require a wide entry, some corners it doesn't matter where you enter, because it is a bus stop exit corner (and by this I mean that the effect on lap time is very very small, and these spots are usually good passing zones, and yes there is a best place to enter but the difference it makes is negligible). Others it matters where you enter so that it sets you up for the proper exit to enter the next corner.

Have you done a track day yet @tory ii ? You will realize that entry speed is hard for you because your don't have your eyes up looking through the turn. As @Gearheaded says it starts with your refrence points and keeping your eyes up with the pace.

Also, why would controlling one of two calipers help? It would reduce total braking force just like controlling both......and typically race bikes don't have ABS......

You're not the guy who a few years ago got into a big argument about how only running one rotor would make the bike pull to one side under braking and therefore would make the bike dangerous to ride.........are you? If you are....you are still very wrong....
 

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i wrote that the wrong way: should read: the best riders go wide all the time.

milller and espargaro got beat by oliviera, at austria, when they went wide (or too fast)
 

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What? Go wide all the time? What does that even mean? Not all corners require a wide entry, some corners it doesn't matter where you enter, because it is a bus stop exit corner (and by this I mean that the effect on lap time is very very small, and these spots are usually good passing zones, and yes there is a best place to enter but the difference it makes is negligible). Others it matters where you enter so that it sets you up for the proper exit to enter the next corner.

Have you done a track day yet @tory ii ? You will realize that entry speed is hard for you because your don't have your eyes up looking through the turn. As @Gearheaded says it starts with your refrence points and keeping your eyes up with the pace.

Also, why would controlling one of two calipers help? It would reduce total braking force just like controlling both......and typically race bikes don't have ABS......

You're not the guy who a few years ago got into a big argument about how only running one rotor would make the bike pull to one side under braking and therefore would make the bike dangerous to ride.........are you? If you are....you are still very wrong....
i have a cb 750 with only one rotor/brake on one side; it got half the braking power of the r1
 

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Astronomer not Astrologer
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i wrote that the wrong way: should read: the best riders go wide all the time.

milller and espargaro got beat by oliviera, at austria, when they went wide (or too fast)
What?

What you said is contradictory....
 

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Maybe he means that the best riders use ALL the track?.... When he says, "the best riders go wide all the time"....?
when they too fast entering the corner, they have to go wide to slow the bike or risk losing the front from braking in the curve
 
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