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Counter steering is a term used, but often mistaken for actual steering, pushing the throttle hand causes the bike to FALL to the right, not steer. When you set your corner by allowing the bike to fall you will begin to turn the bars in the direction of the turn to stop the fall and hold a consistant line through the turn. Don't take my word for it, ask Mr. Bargy. He will also explain gyroscopic forces, when you have two gyro's (wheels) one will cancel out the other, eliminating the gyro theory.
 
jsx269 said:
Counter steering is a term used, but often mistaken for actual steering, pushing the throttle hand causes the bike to FALL to the right, not steer. When you set your corner by allowing the bike to fall you will begin to turn the bars in the direction of the turn to stop the fall and hold a consistant line through the turn. Don't take my word for it, ask Mr. Bargy. He will also explain gyroscopic forces, when you have two gyro's (wheels) one will cancel out the other, eliminating the gyro theory.
So after all these pages you missed the part where it is trail that steers the front wheel to the new arc and balances the bike at lean, not the rider. The rider doesn't allow the bike to fall in, he makes it fall in with C/S. By releasing the pressure on the bars trail will balance the bike at the new angle.

If MR. Bargy is actually saying what you say he does he is very mistaken about what gyroscopic forces are at play in a motorcycle.
 
you know this is very interesting, but i got to tell you, i've never tried it... oh wait i lie i did once.... while doing a burn out!!!! hey by the way check out my new 05 r1 just got it last month rides like no other... i have to tell you tho' had to take off the vinyls they were getting on my nerves, but i had to put jordan on it it's a must!!!!
 
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Any pilot's out there...you will reconize the principal of gyroscopic prescession, that is a force applied at one point of a gyro take effect 90 later in the rotation, this is why you push the top of the wheel (the bars) and the force effects 90 degrees later, (the front of the wheel) inatiating the turn, dont believe me look up the principal of gyroscopic precession, or better yet take the tire off of a bicycle hold the bolts and have a friend spin the wheel now try turning the wheel (doesn't work so well) now try lowering one arm it will turn
 
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evilbeef54 said:
Any pilot's out there...you will reconize the principal of gyroscopic prescession, that is a force applied at one point of a gyro take effect 90 later in the rotation, this is why you push the top of the wheel (the bars) and the force effects 90 degrees later, (the front of the wheel) inatiating the turn, dont believe me look up the principal of gyroscopic precession, or better yet take the tire off of a bicycle hold the bolts and have a friend spin the wheel now try turning the wheel (doesn't work so well) now try lowering one arm it will turn
Funny you. This has been covered to a very large degree but the two points that sum it up in my book are,

lighter wheels = easier to steer ( less gyroscopic force)

sum of gyroscopic precession for a steering action = 0, when you account for it coming back into track after the steering input.

No one is saying it doesn't exist, it just has nothing to do with getting a bike to lean except resisting the change.
 
It has nothing to do with Gyro's of the sort. When you turn the bars left, the wheels move left initially, causing the bike to fall over becuse the center of gravity is (obviously) above the ground. Ride on a painted line, then turn the bars hard in one direction........your tires will come off the line in the direction you turned the bars, and will not cross over until the bike leans over and begins its turn.
 
It is called inertia, it is like when you turn the bars left the bike leans right because it would be like a left turn in a car if you had something on the dash it would slide right, also centrifugal force
 
didnt keith code tutor kevin shwanz when he went pro?????
 
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I have to agree!!!:eek:

Both counter steering and and body steering helps when it comes to cornering and you have to remember body steering is a good way to turn in the rain as the more vertical the bike is the more rubber you have on the road so i choose to use my body in that sence.:riding
 
Errrm. Just on the physics bit here.

Doesn't one of Newton's laws state "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction"?

So, imagine if you are stood up in a rowing boat, with your feet apart. If you try to push down with your foot, nothing happens (because the boat pushes back, and that force transfers through your body back to the other foot, cancelling out the force you applied).

You can, however, rock the boat by moving your weight from one foot to the other (this sounds like weighting the pegs to me), but this is changing your CoG - isn't it (moving mass , however slightly, from one side to another)?

Similarly, sit on a child's swing, and try to get it moving without moving your mass around - it simply isn't possible.

So, you can't apply a force to an object without it pushing back. And you can't apply a force at all, unless you have something to push against (in the opposite direction to the force you wish to apply).

Actually, you can apply a small (insignificant) force - because when you push, and the object pushes back, there's an amount of inertia (I think is the right term) to overcome in getting your mass moving e.g. a shuttle astronaut is floating in zero G. He tries to push a button in. He can do it if the resistance of the button is very low - lower than the inertia of getting his mass moving in the opposite direction. If the button has a strong spring behind it, when he pushes it, he simply moves off in the other direction, unless he can brace himself against something... (and, just to be PC - it could be a her ;)

So I suspect that weighting the pegs effects a change in direction by changing CoG. This is clearly the case with hooking the tank with your knee - you are redistributing where your mass is on the bike - this must affect CoG - and the force you are applying is due to gravity (a bigger moment on the bike, because the mass comes to bear further up the lever (chasis), and further away from the pivot point (contact patches of the tyres).

What do you guys think?

:jump
 
if i get it right... then it is
first countersteer and then use the body to flick it over ? or vice versa ? because lately i'm seeing that i must countersteer and the flip it, because last time i've been flipping and trying to countersteer but doesnt help
 
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it just has nothing to do with getting a bike to lean except resisting the change.
There is another inertia type phenomenom with the front tyre during tip-in i had explained to me the other day. Large diameter circle spinning slowly but when tipped in the diameter is smaller which requires the tyre to spin faster which the inertia in the rotating mass resists. Everyone is counter-steering and trailing front brake the moment you tip a bike in the way ive had it explained to me anyways :)
 
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