how many of you use the rear brake on the track? i don't use it at all now, but i'm thinking about starting to work it in soon. i read in keith codes book you should use it toward the end of your braking because of forces on the rear tire, yall have any other advice?
to use or not to use the rear brake?
latemp
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how many of you use the rear brake on the track? i don't use it at all now, but i'm thinking about starting to work it in soon. i read in keith codes book you should use it toward the end of your braking because of forces on the rear tire, yall have any other advice?
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1,765 Posts
Both Kieth Code and what immortal are saying make sense and I have heard immortal's advise before. Personally, I also have never touched it but need to start.
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so coming off a straight into a hard turn, do you guys use a lot of engine braking? right now im not using that much because i dont downshift till the end of my braking(another thing i read in codes book)....it just seems so hard on the brakes, they fade like hell......thats why i was thinking about using the rear too for extra stopping power
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I do downshift a lot but I've been told too much and to do more like what your doing instead. BUT, all the braking power is in your front anyway if your using them right. If your having fading problems, look into doing some mods. Ceramic pads, vented calipers, there's a lot of little gizmos they sell these days to address that issue.
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73 Posts
The rear brakes won't give you much extra stopping power, if any. When you are hard on the front brakes the rear wheel gets light ( weight transfers to the front). Using the rear brakes can easily lock the rear wheel. What type of brake fluid are you using? Most racing fluids can handle higher temps and decrease fading.
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Watch the superbike racers-they seem to keep foot on it till last second then shift foot for knee down at last second!
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480 Posts
i wish i had money for a slipper clutch, but even so i wanna work my skill level up more before i really start upgrading. i know what you guys mean by using the rear....i read you should use it towards the end of braking because that will be when forces are starting to push on the rear a little. i mainly was thinking about doing that becuase of the heavy brake fade i was getting in the front brakes. so i was thinking maybe i was overusing them.....but now that i actually checked today, the fluid i put in there isnt synthetic. i just bought some motul racing fluid today (damn that shit costs!), and on the back i saw theres a hell of a deference in the boiling points. so imma put that in there an see how she feels next track day. imma eventually upgrade everything on my brakes,but seeing i dont have money like that now, i rather spend it on track days!:rock
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24,951 Posts
I agree 100%, only one other time do I touch the rear brake, if coming into a turn under hard braking and the bike starts to get squirly under me, Ill touch it just for a second to settle it back down
I only use the rear brakes in the wet or on poor surfaces.
But then I'm a noob in this company and haven't been to a trackday yet, but I brake hard enough for the rear to lose traction and wiggle around a bit on my 08. I try to do my downshifting just before and during braking with blips on the throttle and letting the clutch out inbetween each gear, and to be honest I'm quite busy with all of this and getting a good entry and line at the same time...
I'll keep your advice in mind Aron213, sounds very reasonable.
I'll definately try it out inbetween all the braking, blipping, downshifting and countersteering once I get around to it
But then I'm a noob in this company and haven't been to a trackday yet, but I brake hard enough for the rear to lose traction and wiggle around a bit on my 08. I try to do my downshifting just before and during braking with blips on the throttle and letting the clutch out inbetween each gear, and to be honest I'm quite busy with all of this and getting a good entry and line at the same time...
I'll keep your advice in mind Aron213, sounds very reasonable.
I'll definately try it out inbetween all the braking, blipping, downshifting and countersteering once I get around to it
I use the rear all the time, every time I brake. I also use it occasionally in turns to correct a line if I come in a bit too hot, as was mentioned before, but you have to be careful of how much pressure you put on the pedal. Locking it up could end up really bad.
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25,964 Posts
Good to burn my first post on a great topic like this!
Depends on the track- smooth tracks are great for "backing it in" where you force the rear wheel out by over braking it a bit and that gives you a better line. That few extra degrees of turn means a lot when you're pushing it hard. Think of it like flat tracking it in to scrub off excess speed. work up to it, because it's a fine line between braking and breaking!
Watch the big boys on TV. Their back tires leave black marks heading in.
Depends on the track- smooth tracks are great for "backing it in" where you force the rear wheel out by over braking it a bit and that gives you a better line. That few extra degrees of turn means a lot when you're pushing it hard. Think of it like flat tracking it in to scrub off excess speed. work up to it, because it's a fine line between braking and breaking!
Watch the big boys on TV. Their back tires leave black marks heading in.
Pay particular attention to #15.
Kevin Schwantz Suzuki School: Motorcycle Race Track Tips, Texas-Style
30-plus KSSS-approved things to do at your next track day
writer: Mitch Boehm
photographer: George Roberts
1. Increase your speed incrementally.
2. Find and use reference points for braking, turn-in and apex.
3. Focus your vision way out front.
4. Select a gear that uses 60-80 percent of redline at the exit.
5. Be loose on the bike and bars, not rigid.
6. Get body position set for corners early.
7. Hang off slightly--and comfortably--in corners.
8. Use your legs to move you around the bike, not your arms.
9. Go slow when learning a new track. Get the flow first.
10. In the wet, be super-smooth with all control inputs.
11. Ride with the balls of your feet on the pegs at all times.
12. Weight the inside peg entering corners.
13. Weight the outside peg at the apex and exiting corners.
14. Perfect practice makes perfect--helps muscle memory.
15. Ignore the rear brake.
16. Walk the track if possible.
17. Don't apex early; late apex whenever possible.
18. Get to neutral throttle ASAP approaching the apex.
19. Apply smooth but forceful throttle exiting a corner.
20. Keep body movements small or smooth while cornering.
21. Braking distances increase exponentially with speed.
22. Monitor chassis feedback through hands, feet and butt when braking.
23. Ease off the brakes smoothly as you lean the bike into a corner.
24. Brake in segments: first 10 percent (to settle chassis), then 75 percent (hard braking), then 15 percent (releasing smooth toward apex).
25. Get hard braking done early; don't wait till you see God!
26. Passing tip: Let off the brakes sooner and carry a bit more speed into the corner.
27. Release the brake more slowly than you initially grab it.
28. Ride a bicycle for leg strength and cardiovascular training; it'll make you a better rider!
29. Control panic by being in control at all times; resist the temptation to go beyond your personal comfort envelope.
30. If you get in too hot, look where you want to go, relax and will yourself to make the corner.
31. Resist the temptation to tuck completely behind the bubble; sitting higher allows you to see more, which helps nail your braking and turn-in points.
32. If you crash, get wide. It resists flipping.
Kevin Schwantz Suzuki School: Motorcycle Race Track Tips, Texas-Style
30-plus KSSS-approved things to do at your next track day
writer: Mitch Boehm
photographer: George Roberts
1. Increase your speed incrementally.
2. Find and use reference points for braking, turn-in and apex.
3. Focus your vision way out front.
4. Select a gear that uses 60-80 percent of redline at the exit.
5. Be loose on the bike and bars, not rigid.
6. Get body position set for corners early.
7. Hang off slightly--and comfortably--in corners.
8. Use your legs to move you around the bike, not your arms.
9. Go slow when learning a new track. Get the flow first.
10. In the wet, be super-smooth with all control inputs.
11. Ride with the balls of your feet on the pegs at all times.
12. Weight the inside peg entering corners.
13. Weight the outside peg at the apex and exiting corners.
14. Perfect practice makes perfect--helps muscle memory.
15. Ignore the rear brake.
16. Walk the track if possible.
17. Don't apex early; late apex whenever possible.
18. Get to neutral throttle ASAP approaching the apex.
19. Apply smooth but forceful throttle exiting a corner.
20. Keep body movements small or smooth while cornering.
21. Braking distances increase exponentially with speed.
22. Monitor chassis feedback through hands, feet and butt when braking.
23. Ease off the brakes smoothly as you lean the bike into a corner.
24. Brake in segments: first 10 percent (to settle chassis), then 75 percent (hard braking), then 15 percent (releasing smooth toward apex).
25. Get hard braking done early; don't wait till you see God!
26. Passing tip: Let off the brakes sooner and carry a bit more speed into the corner.
27. Release the brake more slowly than you initially grab it.
28. Ride a bicycle for leg strength and cardiovascular training; it'll make you a better rider!
29. Control panic by being in control at all times; resist the temptation to go beyond your personal comfort envelope.
30. If you get in too hot, look where you want to go, relax and will yourself to make the corner.
31. Resist the temptation to tuck completely behind the bubble; sitting higher allows you to see more, which helps nail your braking and turn-in points.
32. If you crash, get wide. It resists flipping.
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553 Posts
No rear brake on track.
Front brakes only are all you need especially when braking in a straight line.
You see the MotoGP boys using it sometimes but I think that they're only using it to settle the rear end rather than for any real braking power (IMO).
Front brakes only are all you need especially when braking in a straight line.
You see the MotoGP boys using it sometimes but I think that they're only using it to settle the rear end rather than for any real braking power (IMO).
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229 Posts
I never use the rear brake, street or track. Never. The only time I touched the rear brake in the last year was when my front brakes failed. I ended up having no rear brakes either because I never had touched them and they weren't pumped up. Front brakes only.
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1,282 Posts
Lots of riders use their brake on the track. Rossi is one of them; he likes to step the rea out on tight turns to change his line/quicken his turn. That takes a lot practice and skill to get it right. I don't use it that much on the track myself, but I use it a lot on the street.
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