Today I started to do some adjustments to the bike. I started with the EXUP. I greased and adjusted it and it was fine. I took it for a brief spin and it was acting worse than it had been (see this thread: http://www.r1-forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233205). I am certain that it is clearly missing a cylinder in the lower RPM's. I took the bike back to the garage and let it cool. I restarted and checked each header pipe. All heated up quickly except #4. I decided to tear it down to check the plugs and wires. Upon removing the air box cover, I noticed that the cover above the #4 intake was wet with fuel. I finished removing the air box and restarted the bike. Idle was still rough, but then I noticed something else. When I gave the throttle a quick blip, there was some fuel blow back from the #4 intake.

I should also mention at this point that the bike starts a little harder than usual. It has always started with the first press of the button, but now it takes two or three tries.

I am going to pull plugs and check them, also going to check the coils (although I should get an error code if any coil was bad). I guess I will have to tear into the head and check valves and springs as a last resort. This really sucks with the bike being one month out of the warranty period.

I guess this would be an opportune time to put on the Graves AIS removal, eh?

So. does anyone have any clues as to what else may cause this condition?

Sounds like its an intake valve problem....or firing on the wrong cylinder

 

Agree on the intake valve......verify compression or cylinder leak down test

 

Thanks guys. Been asking around at other sites and places. This seems to be the popular vote....unfortunately.

 

Talked to the service manager at the dealership and he thinks it's most definitely a valve train problem. He said since I was only a month out of the warranty period to call Yamaha and give it a go. They may cover it as a good will gesture. If not, I'll be dropping the engine out next week. I'm guessing a broken spring at the very least, which would be great at this point because it's only a $6 part, but then there is the head gasket that needs replaced. Ah, what fun.

I'll start taking some pics if anyone is interested. I guess I'll be doing that valve clearance check sooner than I thought.

Oh, and I ordered my Graves smog block off kit, along with a few other goodies. At least something good will come of all this!

 

A quick update...

I finally finished that R6 I was rebuilding, so now I have started tearing apart my R1.

I have the radiator dropped, exhaust off and throttle bodies off. Initial inspection down the #4 intake throat shows the left intake valve discolored at the top where it exits the valve guide. Looks like heat discoloration. Additionally, there looks to be small globs of metal around the valve seat. I can't tell yet if this is causing the valve to not seat thereby causing the blow back and loss of compression, but I will know more soon and will keep this thread updated.

I am posting this from work, but I have pics on my computer at home and will post some up when I can.

 

It does sound like #4 may of had a melt down....You got pictures of your R6 after rebuild??

 

It was a friends 2006 R6S in Yamaha Team Blue. Still looks stock but in addition to tearing down and rebuilding the motor (clutch blew up) we installed Speedbleeders, flushed brake lines, changed fork fluid, installed a Driven 520 conversion kit with -1/+2 sprockets, and installed a Graves block-off kit.

I can never seem to find time to upload pics.

 

that sux dude, im in new zealand my bike has two years unlimited ks. warrenty

 

mine as well..valve s%#t itself 2 days before the warranty expired...12000klm.

 

Nice. I think if I end up trading for an 09 I will opt for the extended warranty.

 

Engine is ready to drop out. Here are some pics for those interested.

 

More...

 

I wish I could have gotten better pics down the intake so you all could see the discolored valve stem and deposits down near the valve seat, but this is the best I could get with my camera. The valve with discoloration is actually the left one.

I hope to get better pics once the engine is dropped and the head is off.

 

nice pics dude ....one pic of throttle bores ...everything looks clean..

 

Last group for now...

 

I found the problem...not good at all!

Looks like the valve guide wallowed out and allowed the valve to wear away at the seat. What a ****in' mess. I will be taking the head down to the dealership this week and also contacting Yamaha about possibly replacing the head. That's alot of money I'm gonna have to shell out if they won't deal with me. At least there is no piston damage.

 

08 r1 candy red

Looks like the valve guide wallowed out and allowed the valve to wear away at the seat. What a ****in' mess. I will be taking the head down to the dealership this week and also contacting Yamaha about possibly replacing the head. That's alot of money I'm gonna have to shell out if they won't deal with me. At least there is no piston damage.

hey, thank to this post , i thought i am the only one with this problem guess not . my 08 r1 with only 4k ,same problem but cylinder 3, same symptoms guied failed badly last year so found a local machine shop will machine the valve seat need a new intake valve $74 new stem seals will put spaser washers to stiff up the springs, bike sure did run like a diesel befor, did replace cct ,cam chain tentioner at 3k was ticking loud with engine rev , for sure they go bad from high revs when the bike is not wormed up, so i think that ther is a issue dealer doesn't wanna say.

 

yes ... the cylinder on the right looks different.. more carbon deposits...if valve guides are wallered then cylinder head replacement is a must...

 

I'm pretty sure the carbon deposits are a result of the incomplete seating of the valve and loss of compression. That valve actually wore away at some of the combustion chamber dome. They'll probably say I over revved it or some shite!

 

I would take the cylinder head to any local machine shop first to get their opinion on if the cylinder head is salvageable to support a rebuild...it won't cost you for their opinion ...sounds as if some of the the metal where the valve seats are may be questionable....

 

just put a new guide in it, get a valve job & you're good to go!

that is if yamaha won't help you out.

 

That will be my first avenue if Yamaha won't help. I will need to find a reputable shop capable of repairing and doing a 5 angle grind on the seats.

 

So I called the Yamaha rep today and let her know what has transpired thus far. Her response to me was that since I had disassembled the bike, they couldn't do anything for me. I told her the problem lies in the head and you can see the problem, no need to take the whole bike in. She told me that if I put it back together and take it to the dealer, they MIGHT be able to do something. I told her thanks but no thanks I will continue on since you can't guarantee if or what you will help me with.

I'm not really mad about this, shit happens, and I didn't opt for the extended warranty. But on the other hand, I wish she had been able to tell me they will do everything they can to right the problem being that this happened only one month out of warranty.

So I have decided that this bike will not hit the streets again in stock form. No sir, no how. Let the rebuild begin! I'm already contacting people about powder coating some of the stock parts and have a pretty good idea of what I want to do with her as far as exhaust and electronics go.

By the way, can anyone recommend a good shop for head service, specifically with experience dealing R1 heads? The closer to central VA, the better.

Might as well have fun with this!

 

I happen to do headwork.
I have several references on this forum.
I'm not near you but shipping is only about 30.00 each way.

if interested, PM me for details.

 

More pics of damage...

Took out the damaged valve today. Stem is worn almost to failure and guide is worn thin on one side. It's a damn good thing I quit riding almost immediately. Fortunately the seat appears to be undamaged.

 

Took out the damaged valve today. Stem is worn almost to failure and guide is worn thin on one side. It's a damn good thing I quit riding almost immediately. Fortunately the seat appears to be undamaged.

really hard to see details on pics....is head (cylinder material) damaged?? Is the valve stem damaged only?? does the valve look like it "seats" in the head??? can it can be refurbished?? many questions ...
if only valve stem seems worn ...something else is probably worn....while apart take to local machine shop to get "experienced" eyes on the head...
I don't mean to step on BSR's previous post offering help but just so much help can be offered if you can't see it in front of you ... like usual keep us posted....

 

WOW! looks like you caught that just in time!

 

i feel for you dude, that is exactly what mine looked like when it was pulled apart. my original bike is still sitting in peices also because some parts were backordered.

 

Head is in for work...

I took my cylinder head down to my Yamaha dealer today and talked to the guys at the service counter and showed them what happened and briefly brought them up to speed on the situation. I know there are a few members with their bikes essentially in storage at dealerships because there will be no heads until late August, so I decide I'm gonna get this fixed. Turns out they do not have the facilities to fix the head, only replace it (WTF?). The guy at the counter, who I believe is a club racer, recommended me to another local shop who has a machinist, saying the guys does head work on cars and stuff. I say alright, whatever, I'll go check him out. I'm figuring at this point I'm gonna be giving Larry McBride's shop in Newport News a call.

So anyway, I take the head over to Caitlin Kustom Cycles (where the guy recommended me to) in Colonial Heights, VA and talk to this guy, who's name is Zebo. Turns out this guy has raced Top Fuel Nitro Bikes for quite a few years now. He has raced with the likes of Larry "Spiderman" McBride, Elmer Trett (God rest his soul) and other big names in nitro bike racing. He raced in the Prostar series in the past and now races a dirt drag Kawasaki based nitro bike with a truck sized paddle wheel on the back. How insane is that?

So Zebo tells me yea, no problem, I can fix this. We talked for a bit and he regailed me with a few stories which had my jaw hitting the floor. A practical drag racing celebrity right down the street from me and I never knew it! So he quotes me a price, which I won't repeat here, and I ask him "You mean per valve?" "No, total price," he says. Again my jaw hits the floor. Of course this is not including parts, but I will order those from the dealership myself and give to Zebo.

All in all this is gonna cost a lot less than I had anticipated. And I feel pretty good about having Zebo do it after talking with him.

I just want to say to all the people here I have talked with about my options, thanks for your time in responding to my inquiries, and for the advice. You know who you are.

By the way, Zebo says he may know what is causing these failures. I will update again with this info, but I want to be able to post pics with it to explain it better so I will do this later.

Stay tuned, True Believers!!! (Gotta love that Stan Lee!)