were they the TCA style ones?

 

This isn't the first time I've of heard of those failing. Sorry about the bad luck. At least you didn't stack the bike and lose your legs.

 

I thought the TCA version fixed those problems?

Boy am i glad i got the Lightech chain adjusters instead :fact

 

This is th ekind I have. I will take pics of it all to show you when I get to the shop tomorrow.
http://www.baysideperformance.ca/index.php?main_page=popup_image&pID=4915

 

I am going back to the factory style. After what happened I am not taking anymore chances with aftermarket Chain Adjusters. Although it is tempting to go with a different brand because it is such a convenient a nice tool to have but I will never feel comfortable and safe riding with it.

 

Was your axle nut torqued properly?

 

I've had the same kind on my 06 for 3 years and 20,000kms, with no trouble. The adjuster is only there to position the axel when it's loose, there should be nothing but clamping force through the adjuster, when the axle is tight. There shoudn't be any rearwards or twisting force through the adjuster.

Exactly what he said.

I hate to say it mate, but I don't think the chain adjuster was your problem.

What did you torque the rear spindle nut too? Was your wrench calibrated? Were the nut/spindle threads in good condition?

There should be zero force on the part of yours that broke in theory, and even if it broke off, there shouldn't be any way your spindle moved forwards unless it was loose.

yep, the adjuster could be cut off and the axle shouldn't move. the clamping force for the wheel has nothing to do with the adjuster.

I recall the rear axle nut is supposed to be torqued to 108 ft/lbs.

I agree with all these posts.

My opinion is you didn't torque the axle nut to the correct spec. No doubt.:fact

 

Yes it was. Only the one side broke off the bracket and shifted.

I circled what broke off. Its the bracket that holds the Adjuster Bolt:

 

I've had the same kind on my 06 for 3 years and 20,000kms, with no trouble. The adjuster is only there to position the axel when it's loose, there should be nothing but clamping force through the adjuster, when the axle is tight. There shoudn't be any rearwards or twisting force through the adjuster.

 

Exactly what he said.

I hate to say it mate, but I don't think the chain adjuster was your problem.

What did you torque the rear spindle nut too? Was your wrench calibrated? Were the nut/spindle threads in good condition?

There should be zero force on the part of yours that broke in theory, and even if it broke off, there shouldn't be any way your spindle moved forwards unless it was loose.

 

I notice that these were fitted to an 08, if i remember correctly there was an updated instruction saying that on the 07 up you had to put the stock bolt back in to the frame on the front of the adjuster. Did you do that ? I'm thinking not, because otherwise there is no way the wheel could have moved forward.
Having said that I have had mine on the bike for about 3 years with no problems what so ever but it is an 06. I have a feeling that the 07 swing arm is a bit thicker at the adjuster end of the arm and it prevents this style of adjuster from sitting correctly because, as has been stated, if the wheel is located and torqued correctly, it should not move, even without an adjuster. The only problems I have heard of on these adjusters is when they have been fitted incorrectly by using spacers in that front frame mount.

Here's a Busa video that started some controversy a while ago where you can clearly see the incorrect fitment

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqoFFCvBwbc

And here is a copy of a reply from Gilles to OPP racing when this problem arose after a the Busa lost the chain

"Hi Tim,



The problem with the old style chain adjuster (KTS) is that we found out that some axles are not clamping accurately after the axle was tightened with the correct torque. We found this problem on the GSXR 1000 K5-9, 600/750 K6-9 and R1 2007-. For these 2 applications we recommended to use additionally the OEM adjusting nut to strud the sliders. Now we have released the second generation of chain adjusters (tca ? transmission chain adjuser) which is not effected by the problem which is caused by not accurately clamping axles as the adjusting bolt traces against compressive and tensile load.



As for the 500HP Hayabusa in the Video ? the chain adjuster wasn?t installed correctly and the swing arm wasn?t OEM?



Mit freundlichen Gr??en / best regards



gilles.tooling gmbh"

I have no problem leaving mine on my bike :fact

 

yep, the adjuster could be cut off and the axle shouldn't move. the clamping force for the wheel has nothing to do with the adjuster.

 

so on the 08's the axle nut is on the left side?

 

Nope, on the 07/08 the rear axle nut is still normally located on the right side of the bike. Some guys just flip it to the left side.

 

The Axle nut is on the Right side of the bike. It was Torqued to I believe 12 or 13lbs, whatever the spec says in the manual.

I have heard different excuses from people I have spoken to about this and some say that maybe the chain was on too tight, others say thta the nut wasnt torqued correctly.....its hard to determine what the real problem was but I can believe that it broke.

If it was an axle nut problem then why did just the one side move?

 

Firstly, I'm not too sure where you got your torque figures from but neither of those, or that unit of measurment are listed.

I use 150Nm as a baseline for most things with an M20+ spindle size.

Only one side moved because (and correct my if it wasn't the chain side that broke on your bike...) there's a chain with 150+bhp pulling on it which does a pretty good job of finding out your spindle's not tight enough for you.

There's nothing to pull on the other side...

 

i'm always tightening the rear axle nut more then the manufacturer spec , with
air impact .

those nuts are hard to destroy , so its not a big problem + added safety.

 

OP error.

 

Really odd to blame an Gillies for being an idiot... 12 or 13ft lbs of torque on the rear axle of a 150hp+ motorcycle, Do you ever the feel the shadow of Darwin looking over your shoulder - WTF were you thinking?

 

The fact that you would not even hesitate to post "12 or 13 lb/ft" without thinking it sounded wrong proves you have no business performing any type of mechanical modification to your motorcycle.

 

Guys I am speaking to what was done because I was there when it was being done. I did not perform this on my own, I had a mechanic from a local shop come do it on the side and I was there helping him do it thats how what was done.

 

Let's not be too hasty guys, he could have meant that he tightened it to 120 or 130ftlbs and it was just a simple spelling/typo.

If so, then I can offer another reason for failure to add to the confusion:

Overtightening a wheel spindle can sometimes be just as bad as undertightening it believe it or not.

Think about what happens in a wheel spindle system when the nut is tightened. Ultimately it all relies on an aluminium spacer tube in the center of the wheel.

If that is placed under too much pressure, it can deform, by a very small amount, but when it does, it effectively releases the pressure it's under and the nut can work loose. Sounds crazy, yes, but I've seen it happen and heard from others the same.

The same can happen when a wheel bearing collapses. Once something in the system releases the pressure, the nut is free to come undone, or back off slightly, which is all it needed to do here to allow the adjuster to be pulled, breaking the soft aluminium end piece (soft because it's not designed to hold any considerable pressure) and then the ensuing carnage takes place.


I really wouldn't blame the design, it's perfectly sound in my opinion. Look for another explanation.

 

For those who are asking about the Torquing of the Axle Nut I am freaked out about what happened and trying to figure out what the problem is that caused this.

As for the Torquing the Owners Manual says 15m*kg for the Axle Nut which is 108ft lbs which is what I did it to. I made sure all the Troquing was right on because I didnt want it to come loose.

 

Ummm... Not knowing the metric conversion for torque off the top of my head so I just Googled it and got this... 108 pound foot = 146.428 newton meter = Hella tight. Are you SURE your torque wrench has m/kg as a unit of measure and not N/m? The reason I even bring this point up is that 15 N/m = 11.063 ft/lbs of torque.

 

Ok, so the axle nut was torqued down correctly. The only other thing I can think of is maybe the Gilles adjuster bolts were torqued way too tight AFTER the axle nut was torqued to spec causing un-needed stress?

 

I am going to the shop later on and will take a look at all the suggestions people have made on here and see what the problem is.

 

for the 07-08 R1, the owners manual says 110 ft/lbs. for rear axle nut while the service manual says 108 ft./lbs.....I would not go over these, just like the sprocket nuts say 72 lbs., and people are snapping studs off....

when i changed my rear sprocket, it is around 25-30 lbs. for the rear sprocket nuts tops with proper torque, any more than around 35 and snap....

I torque the back wheel around 108-110 though (no more), but i would feel good at anything around or over 75-80lbs. for the back wheel....

 

If you re read the Message from Gilles to OPP that I posted earlier you will see that it is possible that the wheel can move on 07and up R1s fitted with the adjusters, even if it has been torqued to the correct specs. The OEM adjuster bolts should have been installed along with the new adjusters on this model :fact
However I am still concerned that the nut was torqued correctly as there are numbers flying around like Bingo night at the old folks home. Also what brand is that rear wheel nut because, and I may be wrong, that does not look stock.
I am sorry this happened to you but unfortunately, one way or another, this is Operator Error.

 

I think the main issue is the axle nut not having enough clamping force to prevent any movement. The design of the adjuster is not the issue here as Originally stated. It is the installation process that is being questioned.

 

The design of the adjuster can be an issue on 07 and up as recognized by Gilles and hence, the amended fitting instructions :fact
Have never heard of an issue on pre 07 models and would not consider removing mine.

 

Personally I just tighten the rear axle nut as tight as I can with the factory tool kit wrench.
If torqued to spec you'd never be able to get it off on the roadside without having two guys to hold the bike down & one with a big strong arm & a real bad attitude. :fact

I don't know what that specs out to but I've never had a problem doing it this way.

 

Wuss :2bitchsla :lol

 

Okay guys here are the pictures. I checked the Torque on the Axle Nut and it was at 108ish so that was not the problem. The only thing that I could think of being in error is MAYBE the chain was on too tight but I know there was play in the chain. Iwas told that overtime when riding the chain does tighten a bit and if thats the case it could have caused it to be too tight.

I checked out all the possibilities you guys have mentioned and everything seems to be fine.

HERE ARE SOME PICS:

 

Is it me or is the axle in there backwards? I thought the nut goes on the other side?

 

:scared:scared