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how to eliminate the power limitation in the first 3 marches?

22K views 150 replies 27 participants last post by  R1liam  
#1 · (Edited)
how to eliminate the power limitation in the first 3 gears?

I know that in the R1 07, the first 3 gears are limited and the butterfly valve are full open only after the 10'000 rpm
is there some way for bypass that ?
thanks
 
#2 · (Edited)
deleted.
 
#4 ·
Yes..the Throttle valves


that confirm from the Powercommander Installation Instructions...

"You will notice that in the maps there are not
detailed values below 7000rpm at 100% throttle
and below 5250rpm at 60-80%. This is because
the throttle blades will not open more than 60%
below this RPM range no matter how much throttle
input is given. Therefore this area can not be
tuned."
 
#6 ·
The Power and Torque curves always cross at 5252rpm on any internal combustion engine.
So i am wondering if it's a good idea to be trying to change the throttle blade setup so they open more below 5250rpm.
I don't know if it's related to any power limitations that yamaha might seek to put on their bikes just kinda interesting to me that throttle blade operation and the power and torque curve number seem to have alot in common.

5250rpm 60-80% throttle blade opening
5252rpm power & torque curves cross.



Horsepower = (Torque * RPM)/5252

Why?
It's important to understand that nobody on the planet ever actually measures horsepower from a running engine. What we actually measure (on a dynomometer) is torque, expressed in foot pounds (in the U.S.), and then we *calculate* actual horsepower by converting the twisting force of torque into the work units of horsepower.

Visualize a one pound weight, one foot from the fulcrum on a weightless bar. If we rotate that weight for one full revolution against a one pound resistance, we have moved it a total of 6.2832 feet (Pi * a two foot circle), and, incidently, we have done 6.2832 foot pounds of work.

Remember Watt? He said that 33,000 foot pounds of work per minute was equivalent to one horsepower. If we divide the 6.2832 foot pounds of work we've done per revolution of that weight into 33,000 foot pounds, we come up with the fact that one foot pound of torque at 5252 rpm is equal to 33,000 foot pounds per minute of work, and is the equivalent of one horsepower. If we only move that weight at the rate of 2626 rpm, it's the equivalent of 1/2 horsepower (16,500 foot pounds per minute), and so on. Therefore, the formula applies for calculating horsepower from a torque measurement.
 
#8 ·
I know on the ZX 1400 it has similar secondary butterfly valves in the throttle bodies and they refer to them as flys most owners remove them. I read on the ZX forum that one of the guys who owned an R1 removed them. When you twist the throttle the computer decides what it thinks you really need never giving you 100% throttle below 5000 RPM's. removing them would give you the ability to get 100% throttle at low RPM's. I'm really surprised I haven't really herd of any tuners doing it on this forum. I can only guess it's because it's a bad idea. A friend with a ZX 14 that I know did this mod and said it was actually harder to launch at the drag strip. Anyone ever here of this?
 
#9 ·
I know that in the R1 07, the first 3 gears are limited and the butterfly valve are full open only after the 10'000 rpm
is there some way for bypass that ?
thanks
once i heard of the limitation i was curious, but then realized i didnt need any more power on the street than my 07 can deliver down low. i went up on the rear gearing and am completely satisfied with the power output of my 07 on the highways around here. it has no where the torque my 00 had but she handles a turn MUCH faster than my 00 would without bucking and sliding(on the same tires).
 
#11 ·
i would guess to make any changes to throttle valves so that the bike would work properly would require you to re-program the factory ecu.... fuel table fuel trim ignition table etc etc .

i am not really sure what you would gain by having the throttle valves open more than 60% at what i would consider pretty low rpm's on the R1.
 
#21 ·
In the meantime I toke some information about the ECU setting
I spoke with a engineer that work for some SBK Italian Team.
He confirmed me that in the 1sh 2nd 3rd gear the ECU use the particular maps that limit the power for the raider safety.
this power limitation is manage by the throttle valve position, the ECU limit the valve opening below 7000 to 1000 rpm ( it's depend to the gear)
he explained me that this limitation is not for to have a right combustion ratio..this has been verified when he prepare the ECU YEC for the competition on the "motorcycle dynamometer"

For to have the real power in the first 3 gears It's necessary to install a YEC ECU or modify the standard ECU to make it become as YEC ECU.
in both the solutions the ECU doesn't manage the EXUP valve and the speedometer in the meter unit..

Sorry for my English...
 
#22 ·
After my test in the cisrcuit with R1 07 by of my fried with ECU YEC...
99% I will replace my PCIII and i will modifie my ECU like YEC version..
at the moment is only a money problem....before I have to sell my PCIII

there is no comparison between the two results...YEC is incredible..
 
#23 ·
After my test in the cisrcuit with R1 07 by of my fried with ECU YEC...
99% I will replace my PCIII and i will modifie my ECU like YEC version..
at the moment is only a money problem....before I have to sell my PCIII

there is no comparison between the two results...YEC is incredible..
What do we have to do to modify the stock ECU to make it like a YEC version?
 
#24 ·
#26 ·
so you can you use a pciii with a yec?

is the wiring harness thing that comes with it replace the stock one, or is that just for plugging it in the the stock harness and stuff?
 
#29 ·
So does anyone have the YEC ECU? If so I understand that some functions with the stock electronics are lost is this true. Modifying the stock ECU seems to be a little over my head and I don't have to tools "oscilloscope etc.". I was hoping it would be something simple like moving a few jumpers on the circuit board but that does not seem to be the case. I found a post from someone who is trying to back engineer one but it hasn't been resolved yet. http://forums.openecu.org/viewtopic.php?p=14500&sid=2caa02d2fa5d8b1fa9617ca2f65a98f8
 
#30 ·
I hope to have to understood your questions...
1- It's possible use both ( ECU & PCIII) in SBK many teams use both because with the PCIII it is faster to make the small corrections
2- If you replace the standard ECU with YEC ECU...probably you have to replace the wiring (but I'm not sure, Saturday I will have a meeting with the guy able to do the modify)
3- the guy that I will meet is able to clean the standard ECU and put inside the new software like YEC ECU, after that he insert in the standard plug 4 pins ( 2 for supply 2 for to communicate with ECU)...at the end he weld a 9 pins socket ( serial type)..

PS. the YEC ECU software is not able to give the speed on meter unit and to the place of the speed will be the engine temperature...
for to recover this information is necessary to install a new meter unit able to calculate the speed from the speed sensor

like this:
http://www.aim-sportline.com/pages/bike/section_bike_mxl.htm
 
#33 ·
sucks about the speedo not working.
 
#36 ·
that's the one i was watching. :secret:
 
#39 ·
Another option would possibly be to bypass the fly by wire throttle all together and attach the throttle cables directly to the carburetors just like the older model's. I'm not sure what type of errors this would get from the ECU by doing this but it would allow someone to make the throttle do what they wanted it to.
 
#41 ·
When running the race YEC ECU you must run the Race YEC wiring harness. The new YEC wiring harness eliminates

Headlights
Tail lights
Turn Signals
Kickstand sensor
Front Break sensor
Rear Break sensor
Nutral light
Ignition switch

The YEC ECU can recognize the difference between the stock harness and the YEC harness. Even though the YEC ECU can plug into the Stock harness. The ECU will not allow the bike to start when its pluged into the stock wiring harness. Therefor you must use the YEC harness.

What i did when i ran the YEC harness. I made a 2nd harness that ran everything in paralell to the race harness. Took about 2 weeks to wire but it worked. The bad thing is 4 weeks later the YEC ECU decided to go bad. Sense yamaha no longer makes the YEC ECU for an 08 r1 im forced to use my stock one.
 
#44 ·
I spoke with Yamaha tuner, I have 2 solutions:
modify my standard ECU like YEC ECU....250€ + cable interface 100€
or YEC ECU 450€ + cable interface 100€...
In both case is necessary modify the pin in the socket ECU...

I sow the YEC software.....compare to powercommander is better...
It's possible to adjust
- The fuel curve
- Ignition time curve (like PCIII ignition module)
- Engine idling speed
- Engine brake
- Engine speed value for open Intake funnel
 
#46 ·
I spoke with Yamaha tuner, I have 2 solutions:
modify my standard ECU like YEC ECU....250? + cable interface 100?
or YEC ECU 450? + cable interface 100?...
In both case is necessary modify the pin in the socket ECU...

I sow the YEC software.....compare to powercommander is better...
It's possible to adjust
- The fuel curve
- Ignition time curve (like PCIII ignition module)
- Engine idling speed
- Engine brake
- Engine speed value for open Intake funnel
So if you modify the stock ECU does this mean you need the YEC wiring harnes? If so then we are back to square one with the speedo, side stand switch and a few other things not working. Sounds like Yamaha did a good job to prevent street bikes from working around this lower RPM power restriction. :( I guess I will keep waiting............ Thanks for the info.