:2bitchsla

crash......:crash


this has been covered about 12983014835374543654 times.....there is even a sticky thread for it and why not to do this very thing.....the 600s are waaay more forgiving in the throttle department and turn in (usually) is a little more forgiving as well and they are somewhat easier to handle in the curves...therefore every question you had has been covered.

sorry if I sound like a :ass but this has been covered so many times and people dont search...they just post to have a post

 

Buying the R1 was the first mistake. Believing that "an R6 is just fine" is another mistake. None of the current supersport 600cc sportbikes make good beginners in my opinion.

 

I honestly think that they are probably the same stupid mistakes that occur to newbies on any bike. Inability to stop in a panic situation, running wide in a turn, etc. The one that is probably most specific to high power bikes is getting over confident and rolling on too much throttle in a corner.

 

You can kill yourself on any bike. Just have respect for the machine and take it easy and you'll be OK. Look at it this way, you can kill yourself with a pellet gun if you REALLY screw up, and you can kill yourself with a .50 caliber Desert Eagle. The R1 is a .50 caliber Desert Eagle. You need to handle the machine with care because there isn't as much of a learning curve as there is with a smaller, less powerful bike. These bikes inspire false confidence---as soon as you think this bike is your "bitch", she'll remind you of your mortality. Take it easy if the R1 is your first bike and stick around, this forum is a cool place to learn some things you might otherwise never know.

Peace

 

there's all this jibber jabber about how moronic it is to get an R1 as a first bike and "your gonna kill yourself" but i really dont understand how a beginner will kill themsleves on an R1 but an R6 is just fine. whats the big difference? what mistakes do people make that result in harm? hitting the throttle too hard too soon? falling on turns? please tell me.

Personally, I wouldn't recommend the R6 as a first bike either. I'd say the major factor new riders don't understand is the power these bikes make. A new rider will find themselves in a panic situation and over react either with the power or the brakes. All that you have stated about the throttle, and falling in the turns can cause a newbie to freeze up when he or she needs to be the most alert. Now, there are members on here that have started out on a R1 and have done just fine. A lot of it depends on how mature you are and your ability to respect the R1 or R6. Welcome to the forum and ride safe. :yesnod

 

great answer skeeter.

i just htink it comes down to maturity and also a r1 makes you a lazy rider in the twisties compared to a 600. and you dont learn as much becuase your scared of it or you will go balls out and spin it up and high side quickly

 

Here is your answer:

Take a timespan of 2 years.

Rider #1: R1 (responsible, learns easy, doesnt crash)

Rider #2: GS 500 for 6months. Then 600 for 1 year, then a 1000 after that.

Now, after 2 years take them to the track or some serious twisties. The rider that has only ridden on the R1 will get left for dead 95% of the time. When you start on smaller bikes you LEARN how to ride, and learn how to go faster. When you start on a big bike, you spend much of your time learning how NOT to crash

 

Ok... I've been riding now on the street for 19 years, one accident (touch wood). I've had 2 close calls in the last 3 weeks... first was a stupid mistake... wheelstand on change of direction and when I changed into 2nd, the front was cold and slid on touch down, I almost ended up in a traffic island, the second was thanks to a hilux. He wanted my lane, I was in front a little, his bullbar touched my left elbow.

The first was a squid mistake, the second could happen to anyone on any bike.

 

Here is your answer:

Take a timespan of 2 years.

Rider #1: R1 (responsible, learns easy, doesnt crash)

Rider #2: GS 500 for 6months. Then 600 for 1 year, then a 1000 after that.

Now, after 2 years take them to the track or some serious twisties. The rider that has only ridden on the R1 will get left for dead 95% of the time. When you start on smaller bikes you LEARN how to ride, and learn how to go faster. When you start on a big bike, you spend much of your time learning how NOT to crash

never looked at it that way but good point. i cant say how much i love my 600

 

People will flame you for getting an R1 as a first bike, but it is your choice. I started out on a R1 3 summers ago and so far I have been ok. I'm also 29yrs old now. I don't stunt and I don't care how fast I can go in a straight line. I like to ride the twisties and I know I have lots to learn still.

 

Buying the R1 was the first mistake. Believing that "an R6 is just fine" is another mistake. None of the current supersport 600cc sportbikes make good beginners in my opinion.

:thumbup :thumbup

Today's 600cc bikes are just as quick as the 900-1000cc bikes from ten years ago. Would you recommend a '94 ZX9R to a beginner, probably not. With just a Micron exhaust and jet kit my ZX9R made 137 horse....wayyyyyyyy to much for a beginner. (if the bike didn't wiegh 530lbs it would have been much faster)

 

i really dont understand how a beginner will kill themsleves on an R1

and that is your problem. this pretty much means you have no experience with a motorcycle. the smart thing would be to listen to people who know what they are talking about. the stupid thing would be to ask for advice and then ignore it.

the first mistake people who get an R1 do is get an R1. unfortunatelly for a lot of them it's their last mistake too.

 

I think the biggest difference between the two when learning is the difference in throttle response with the same amount of throttle twist. The size of the engine doesn't make a difference with actual speeds in turns. You can do 80 in a turn on a 600, and you can do 80 in a turn on a 1000.

But when leaned over in that turn, just for example, giving 1/4 turn more throttle would most likely upset the chassis much more on the 1000 than the same on a 600, which could lead to controlability issues.

In my opinion, you need much finer throttle control on more powerful bikes, which is something that is developed by riding. So if you are new to riding, you won't have much throttle control, and it will be much more forgiving to be on a weaker bike.

My 04 R1 happens to be my first bike. I learned to ride before I ever bought it, and would STRONGLY recommend not to learn on a Supersport liter bike. I probably didn't have as much experience as I should have, but I bought my bike because I love riding motorcycles, and I was trading a car worth about $15,000 with my dad for him to buy me the bike, and I didn't want to trade up on an R6. I learned to ride on a 2002 F4i, and I just got the hang of it really quick. My friend let me borrow it the very next day after my first time ever riding a motorcycle. It really wasn't the smartest idea on either of our parts, but luckily, it turned out ok. Within 20 minutes of my first experience riding a motorcycle, he had me riding with him sitting on the back of it. Then later I started riding another friend's SV650S, and between the 2, I put about 1500 miles on them. I felt really confident with my abilities, and made the decision that I could responsibly handle an R1. You really need to evaluate your abilities on a smaller bike before attempting to ride a monster like the 1. I can ride the hell out of my bike, but I have never tried competing against anyone in any way. I am considering furthering my riding abilities by hitting some track days, but I would REALLY prefer to get a 600 before I start riding hard on the track. It's true what everyone says about your abilities when getting experience on smaller bikes. You CAN improve greatly just riding a liter bike, but the learning curve will be MUCH slower than with a 600.

 

They crash making a u turn straight out of the dealers parking lot. How about, and this one always gets me, pulling a mono going way past balance point flipping it over, all while holding on to the bars. If you told me an R 1 can do that i would tell you "get lost no way". I saw it and i still can't believe it. He got good vertical height too about 4 feet.

 

Purchase an R1! Instead of doing the intelligent thing and getting a starter bike.

 

lets say i was on a road where the speed limit is 40, how much movement of the throttle would it take to accelerate "normally/safely" to 40 from a stop position with an R6 compared to an R1?

 

I started on dirt bikes. My first street bike wasn't even a sport bike. It was a cruiser. On that bike, I could pin the throttle in first and not bring up the front. Try that on the R1. Wait. Don't.

 

an inexperianced rider on an R1, put them through a twisty road and see how long it takes for a nasty highside to occur, my guess 5 minutes, maybe 10 if thier lucky.

 

I was looking into getting an R1 for my first bike; after spending days reading the various post on this site, I decided to get a 600 for my first bike. I am glad I did.
Since then I moved up to the 1000 and my wife is now "learning" on the 600. Not until I watched her make mistakes on a 600 I realized what a bad idea a 1000 for is for someone with no riding experience. From giving it too much gas, to releasing the clutch too fast, to too much front brake and the list goes on and on. These are the same mistakes I made when I first started, only then, I didn’t realize the seriousness of my mistakes.
She is getting much better at it now, no major mistakes anymore but any of those mistakes on a 1000 would have been serious, on the 600, she got away it (except for the too much brake one, she did manage to drop the bike on that one). Having a 1000 and a 600 I will have to tell you, a 1000 for a beginner is a really bad idea.

 

an inexperianced rider on an R1, put them through a twisty road and see how long it takes for a nasty highside to occur, my guess 5 minutes, maybe 10 if thier lucky.

:iamwithst

Mistakes specific to liter sportbikes:
Bad throttle on slick pavement -> rear slide -> crash.
Lousy throttle control in a turn -> rear slide -> highside.
Too hard acceleration -> wheelie -> crash (either flipping or bad landing).

Mistakes specific to all sportbikes (600cc too):
Pinning the brakes in panic stops -> lose front -> lowside.
Misjudging acceleration -> going too fast for conditions -> panic situation -> crash.
Misjudging the grip of the tires -> losing front/rear in a turn -> lowside/higside.


These mistakes are much easier to avoid on beginner bikes like GS500, because :
Throttle is much more forgiving - no wheelie/powersliding.
Brakes don't lock so fast while applying so little power to them.
Acceleration is slower and not immediate, giving enough time for re-judgement.
Much, much harder to highside (still possible, but very hard).
Tires for those bikes lose grip earlier, and not at such extreme conditions - even losing grip and crashing will end up better.
And, the reason for much faster learning curve - the limits are closer, easier to approach and to stay near, while not passing them, with a large margin for error - and staying closer to limit -> faster learning.


When you get a sport literbike for a 1st bike, you have all the factors of difficulty and no gain.

 

Hello all, What a way to start my posting...

I'll be getting my R1 in the next coupe of week's, I can't wait I've been waiting for 6 weeks for it to come in & yes it will be my first sport bike. I've been riding for 23 years, dirt & street bike's, I'm just going to take it easy with her...

 

an inexperianced rider on an R1, put them through a twisty road and see how long it takes for a nasty highside to occur, my guess 5 minutes, maybe 10 if thier lucky.

That's a pretty silly statement. Put ANY rider with ZERO experience on a set of twisties and get them to try and go through and I'm pretty sure most will have a crash in short order. I think most will crash due to panic and feeling too fast into a corner and over breaking and not turning in. My 2 crashes/drops were running wide in a very low speed turns and had nothing to do with losing the rear because of too much power. I've ridden with quite a few newbies riding anything from a '94 Ducati 900 CR, to a '01 Suzuki TL1000R. When I say newbies I mean newbie in that the guy on the Ducati had less than 100 miles total life-time riding experience, all of it on the Ducati. I've seen 6 newbie crashes that I can think of off the top of my head and all happened in low speed corners where the rider paniced and ran wide. None of these riders were on an newer liter bike, but I think the information is relevant to the fact that most newbie riders crash as a result of running wide due to panic and the power of the bike doesn't really come into play.

 

That's a pretty silly statement. Put ANY rider with ZERO experience on a set of twisties and get them to try and go through and I'm pretty sure most will have a crash in short order. I think most will crash due to panic and feeling too fast into a corner and over breaking and not turning in. My 2 crashes/drops were running wide in a very low speed turns and had nothing to do with losing the rear because of too much power. I've ridden with quite a few newbies riding anything from a '94 Ducati 900 CR, to a '01 Suzuki TL1000R. When I say newbies I mean newbie in that the guy on the Ducati had less than 100 miles total life-time riding experience, all of it on the Ducati. I've seen 6 newbie crashes that I can think of off the top of my head and all happened in low speed corners where the rider paniced and ran wide. None of these riders were on an newer liter bike, but I think the information is relevant to the fact that most newbie riders crash as a result of running wide due to panic and the power of the bike doesn't really come into play.

the most crashes ive seen with new riders on big bikes has been highsiding through corners as its a very easy mistake to make, most people panic and let off the throttle when the back spins and really you have to keep the power on, running wide is also common as when anyone starts it is easy to misjudge a corner and go in too hot and run wide, im only speakling from personal experiance of what ive seen, i think we could all agree that a 600,750 or 1000 sportsbike for a new rider probably isnt a good idea.

 

the most crashes ive seem with new riders on big bikes has been highsiding through corners as its a very easy mistake to make, most people panic and let off the throttle when the back spins and really you have to keep the power on, running wide is also common as when anyone starts it is easy to misjudge a corner and go in too hot and run wide, im only speakling from personal experiance of what ive seen, i think we could all agree that a 600,750 or 1000 sportsbike for a new rider probably isnt a good idea.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the most common accident, but I'll agree that starting on anything as powerful as a 600+ sport bike is not the best choice, and probably all riders would have a better learning experience starting small and doing all the appropriate training to acquire the appropriate skills.

Starting on an EX250/500 doesn't mean squat if you just commute back and forth to work for 10k miles a year, then get an SV650 and do the same for a few years, then an R6 for a few years, and then get a liter bike and decide you're tired of just commuting and then get with a bike club and go and try to rip through the twisties.

I've seen it where people have come for riding in a urban area for their entire lives and have years and miles of riding experience, but have no clue what to do when confronted with some actual winding country roads.

There are many components to becoming the best rider you can, and choosing to start out on a liter bike doesn't automatically disqualify someone from becoming a good rider, nor is it a death sentence. Admittedly starting big, has consequences, one of which is the need to learn at a slower pace.

Taking the MSF course, riding within your limits, practicing all the drills from the MSF course, taking the advanced MSF course, doing track days, doing track schools, wearing the appropriate gear. All of these components, to me, are just as important or more important than what bike you start out on.

I think we've gone way off topic and are now just continuing the R1 as a first bike thread again. :dunno:

 

lets say i was on a road where the speed limit is 40, how much movement of the throttle would it take to accelerate "normally/safely" to 40 from a stop position with an R6 compared to an R1?

you are completely missing the point. even if someone here could tell you that it would be a useless piece of trivia.

there is absolutelly no substitute for experience when it comes to riding motorcycles. you will make mistakes, if you're stupid you'll die from them, if you listen to people you might just survive.

on my first day riding my yzf600 (about 25 horses less than an R6 and 100 lbs more) i wheelied the thing from a standstill at the stop light. i almost landed the bike in some guy's track. funny thing is i still can't wheelie the damn thing when i want to.

what you need is experience not useless trivia.