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Why's OEM paint so good?

6.4K views 43 replies 13 participants last post by  ebags  
#1 ·
I had my upper OEM fairings resprayed about a year ago and 2000mi. The paint looks great etc but doesn't withstand stone chips for shit! :no Its only highlighted by stones that have impacted right on the line where the nose cone (OEM paint) and upper fairings meet, it will chip the upper and barely dent the nose. :shake

I know not all paint/painters are equal but what's so special about factory paint in general (various cars/bike manuf. included) as opposed to aftermarket?

I have been playing with various lower fairings and colours but after this I'm off aftermarket paint. :fact I've got 3 sets of lowers and they are all going on eBay because if I can't have OEM paint they are useless.

Needless to say I'm going to fork out for OEM uppers.... after I flog these out some more :rock

And Marcaztls, if you're reading.. yes I have considered joining the furry side more than once! This paint is doing my head in, but it's so shiny and pretty... can't stay away! :hammer:
 
#2 ·
Kinda unrelated but, on my last bike I bought brand new side fairings. The right side cost about 100.00 more than the left side. I thought that was absurd. I'm guessing the supply and demand come into effect seeing as how its more likely to drop your bike on the kick stand side than the other.
 
#5 ·
It makes a world of difference if the add flex additive to your sealer and clear. I use flex add on everything I paint, wether it's a flexible panel or not. Another factor is paint thickness. The thicker the paint the easier it will chip.
I'm not sure if he added this flex stuff.

I do remember him mentioning 12 odd coats in total. It's lava red so it has a base coat as well.

I think it was a primmer issue though because when I get a chip it goes all the way back to white, the colour of the bare plastic and I know this because I sanded them back to bare plastic. Not sure if that's ideal to sans back to bare but I had my reasons. I bought the bike as a wreck and the uppers had light to medium scratches in them so by sanding back to bare I was able to sand out the gouges with an orbital sander as opposed to filling them with a primer/filler.

At the time I though this would be far better than filler??
 
#4 ·
It makes a world of difference if the add flex additive to your sealer and clear. I use flex add on everything I paint, wether it's a flexible panel or not. Another factor is paint thickness. The thicker the paint the easier it will chip.
 
#6 · (Edited)
A little bit of filler would have prolly been a better route. But it depends on the extent of the gouges. If you sand them to bare plastic you have to spray an adhesion promoter before you spray anything else. And if you do use primer you have to make sure you flex that also. 12 coats is quite a bit of material.
 
#7 ·
Hmmm, perhaps I got a bit exited with the sanding then. :lol

If I had of known about adhesion issues I would have just sanded the clear off and filled the scratches.

Ah well, live and learn huh!
 
#8 · (Edited)
I know not all paint/painters are equal but what's so special about factory paint in general (various cars/bike manuf. included) as opposed to aftermarket?
yes actually there is something very special about YAMAHA OEM PAINT!

we have known this about car paint jobs for a long time... as far as I know Yamaha is one of the only
ones that actually does this on our bikes!

they somehow magnetize the plastics so paint adheres to it pretty much permanently!! & ITS PAINTED BY ROBOTS!!

human hand will never be that smooth!!

local dealers think their painter is GOD! and swear its much better than OEM paint cause they put on 2 layers of clear coat not one as in oem..

you put two bikes next to eachother in the sun.! one oem, one aftermarket.. you will pick out the OEM one everytime!!

my friend had his MIATA re-built and re-painted.. cost him a bundle! he swore his painter was the man!

he hated it within six months!! & they told him it should last at least 3 years without fading.. YAH RIGHT!

When I had my accident in 2010, local dealer tried to get my insurance company to pay 500 bucks for re-paint
one stupid spot, couldnt have been more than 4 or 5" all around... and it was a pearl white tank!

I refused! flat out!! I could have brought in a brand new tank for less than 500 bucks & i told them this! the
dealer refused & said insurance would never pay for a brand new tank!!.. I wrote my insurance agent with my explanation,
he replied within minutes!! i do not think it was a fluke either! he agreed to pay for A BRAND NEW OEM TANK! even though they would have to ship one
in from Stateside {i live in canada}.. brand new tank {canadian dealer cost} was 800+ to ship up & have it at the shop!! INSURANCE agreed!

that and oem plastics match the paint color! :fact
 
#9 ·
Yeah that does remind me of the docco I saw about the building of the BMW Z4, how they dip the chassis in solutions... protons and atoms... some other shit I didn't understand but short version, it made the paint stick like a cat to a blanket. Seems my paint is jumping off like a cat on a hot tin roof. :crash

I known pearls are a prick to match. I sanded half my tail and he blended it and I've told a few people and no one can pick where. So he did a wicked effort on colour matching, even the depth and intensity if the pearl is spot on. :fact Just clinging issues.

Hopefully the tail and air tubes will be going. I'm looking at some raven OEM panels tomorrow :sneaky :jump
 
#10 · (Edited)
here yah go! found an easy link!

http://www.ehow.com/how-does_5565360_electrostatic-painting-works.html


ACtually, the reason I have been holding off on re-placing my oem upper & tank shroud.. if I cannot get it in carbon fiber, I will just get oem again!

I dont care how cheap the ebay plastics are... they're just that.. CHEAP!

I known pearls are a prick to match. I sanded half my tail and he blended it and I've told a few people and no one can pick where. So he did a wicked effort on colour matching, even the depth and intensity if the pearl is spot on. :fact Just clinging issues.
my best mate Erik, Miata owner, is into digital photography... he would pick it out in 2 minutes or less :lol
which is why he went to such great lengths to figure it out...

after all that headache.. he paid someone to wet sand the whole car by hand to at least get rid
of the damn orange peal effect.. he knows it will never be like OEM paint.. but the rest of his
cash went into engine rebuilt, custom super charger & fancy race certified ECU.. the damn thing puts
down about 240HP to the wheels now!! and you know how Miatas are.. they weigh nothing!! :fact
 
#12 · (Edited)
like I said.. his money was going towards engine mods & all..

He somehow figured it was gonna be okay without paying
extra for wet sanding at the time..... apparently he
was wrong on that regard as well..

he went somewhere else for wet sanding after the fact... :fact

I would have raised hell over the whole bullshit, but he's got a bit
of a hard time doing shite like that... he figures it was his fault for
not schooling himself before having the work done.. the painter came
recommended & in high regard locally... It did look incredible at first..
just impossible to match OEM painting..

There is a crew of guys that have done rebuilds out here & they have
all run into orange-peel effect no matter the painter.. its just a fact of life
really.. as posted above.. humans are not robots.. hence the need for
wet sanding by hand.. no matter how good they think they are...

I have seen another members Busa locally, cost him 3grand to have his bike
painted PEAR WHITE to match that of YAMAHA.. i will see if i can find him again
& see what it looks like a year later...
 
#13 ·
like I said.. his money was going towards engine mods & all..

He somehow figured it was gonna be okay without paying
extra for wet sanding at the time..... apparently he
was wrong on that regard as well..

he went somewhere else for wet sanding after the fact...

that's what i picked up on which is why i made the comment i did :thumbup i read it as that he spent a bunch of money on the paint job and ended up with a shit paint job.
 
#14 ·
ohhh no he spent a bunch of money on a full rebuild!
then the shop recommended a local painter..
others agreed.. as always... painters are humans.. no way around that...

dont get me wrong! he did an amazing job with the paint job...
Erik just figured ahh, i can probably hold off on the wet sanding..
i'm gonna be drag racing this thing.. why spend extra dough if i'm
gonna ruin it anyway...

& then six months later.. fack me.. faded.. very slight lines here & there..
we ran our hand over the paint... yup.. orange peel effect was unavoidable..

ohh well.. wet sanding it is... lesson learnt
 
#15 ·
I'll see if I can dig up some before and after pics of the fairings when I'm home.

Hopefully tomorrow night I'll have OEM raven lowers and tubes. :jump Then I just need to find or buy a black tail. Was going to go with carbon but I want Ohlins on the front more and a few other bits and bobs.
 
#16 ·
I know exactly how it goes..

look forward to the pics..
 
#17 ·
I've gone down the "painting myself" process many times to finally realize nothing sticks to plastic! Whatever type of process the factory uses for adhesion is not something me or any paint shop can replicate. That's what it all boils down to. Nothing Sticks to Plastic!! so if you ever do a paint job "do not sand down to bare plastic" lol. lesson learned.
 
#18 ·
You need to wet sand the primer then primer again with another wet sanding.

I've always rattle can my track plastics and I guarantee if you do that with the adhesion promoters for plastic you will have very little problem. At Jennings last month had a rider hit the ground about twenty feet in front of me and a hard part came up and smacked my upper left just above the mounting point. It left a small chip but again it was a huge piece of metal that I ran into at about 80 MPH.
 
#19 ·
And Marcaztls, if you're reading.. yes I have considered joining the furry side more than once! This paint is doing my head in, but it's so shiny and pretty... can't stay away! :hammer:
:lol

they somehow magnetize the plastics so paint adheres to it pretty much permanently!! & ITS PAINTED BY ROBOTS!!
Bingo. I was going to post just that when I saw the thread title.

I've not clicked your link yet but I'm guessing it'll explain how the standard panels are statically charged and the paint bonds to a fresh, non-previously painted panel best.

Sadly, no matter what is done, unless you're going to flat all the way back to the bare plastic then use the same techniques, aftermarket paint will always chip easier than standard.
 
#20 · (Edited)
Having spent almost 30 years around industrial/automotive painting, aerospace painting, and painting using robots, here's a few things that may clear some things up:

1. Plastic parts are generally painted at the same factory where they are molded, with the part going from mold to painted anywhere from a few hours to a few days. These parts are cleaned via 3-stage or 5-stage industrial cleaning systems, destat'd (removal of static charge), and prepped before painting and handled with gloved hands. There are NO oils, silicones, etc... on these parts when they receive their OEM finish. They are painted in quasi-controlled environments, maintaining as constant of temp and humidity as they can.

2. OEM paint is not necessarily the same as the paint you can buy to match the OEM color. Most factories have agreements with various mfr's for certain chemistries, characteristics, additives, etc... and they consider them proprietary. Not in all cases, though. In any case, many plastic parts are not primed at all, the solvent used in the paint literally softens the surface plastic and chemically bonds the paint to the plastic, kind of like airplane glue (plastic model glue) softens mating plastic surfaces and bonds them together. In fact, the solvent in airplane glue is Xylene, which is used in many OEM paints. It basically microscopically bonds the paint to the plastic by "melting" the very surface layer of plastic, allowing the paint and plastic to "mix" and cure together as the solvent evaporates out of the system. There are more and more plastics being pre-coated with a very thin coat of an adhesion promoter (or primer, if you will) that also has some additives in it that will allow the part to be sprayed electrostatically.

3. These parts are all force cured using ovens, IR lighting, etc. Typically, an ambient cured coating will never achieve the properties that a force cured coating will, no matter what any "expert" or sales/marketing ahole tells you.

4. There is no difference in surface finish between a robotically sprayed and a human sprayed part. A human will often impart variability into the spray and get sags, runs, light spray, heavy spray, etc..... but when a good human spray job is compared to a good robot spray job, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Finish quality, all other things being equal, is dependent on the paint chemistry, viscosity, spray gun (atomizer), build rate, and environmental conditions. What a robot provides is repeatability and uniform control of the spray gun motion, standoff, speed, etc. It doesn't get tired, have hangovers, have girlfriend issues......

5. most plastic parts are now sprayed with electrostatic rotary bell atomizers. These spray "guns" spin a very finely balanced bell cup up to about 50,000 RPM's and mechanically atomize the paints into extremely fine particles.......more so than the classic style paint gun, and much more uniformly...... and throw out a plume of paint that is charged via mechanisms in the spray gun. The parts are grounded (they are made conductive via the additive in the adhesion promoter) and the result is the charged paint is magnetically attracted to the part, even wraps itself around curves, edges, etc. The very finely atomized paint lays down smoother and flows together better, which is what produces the superior surface finish.

6. When you repaint parts, there is virtually no way to reproduce the cleaning process, decontamination, prep, etc... as good as the factory does, so you are likely never going to get as good of a paint job as the OEM. That said, there are places out there that produce extremely good paint jobs, but this is one of those things where you get what you pay for. There is a reason why good quality paint jobs are very expensive: they don't shortcut steps, they have the proper facilities and equipment, they are more experienced at matching paints & chemistries, along with matching paint chemistry to primer chemistry, etc.
 
#33 ·
:bow:bow thanks for taking the time to share that.

I used to think paint jobs in general were over priced but since I've done some research into even a crappy backyard jobs it starts to make perfect sense. To say there's a lot involved would be a massive understatement! And I only understand the most basic of basics!

Here's some pics of my paint as I promised bacchus40:

This is when I bought the bike
Image


Sanding
Image


Sanding done off to painter
Image


My backyard work on the exhaust heat shields
Image


Image


tank and front fender were untouched/undamaged, nose is brand new OEM, uppers OEM plastic re-sprayed, lowers are chinese shit, tail OEM plastic re-sprayed
Image


Over-all as I said eariler in the thread the colour matching and quality of the paint I'm really happy with, even the depth of the pearl matches OEM. I've found a few specs of dust that found there way into the clear... but meh, I can live with that. Seems the issue was at the priming stage as the paint chips like crazy. :scared But ah well, live and learn. I'll get my monies worth out of the uppers and then sell the on flebay and replace with new OEM.

I've just bought OEM raven lowers and air tubes (that was the point of the chinese lowers to see if I liked the look)... and soon to follow raven tail fairing or possibly SBK style, but after my run with aftermarket paint I think I'll stick with OEM. :crash
 
#21 ·
Paint sticks to plastic just fine if you prep it right. I paint plastic on a daily basis and have no problems with adhesion. The first this I use is some DuPont Plas-Stick 2320s to clean the bare plastic. It softens the plastic and then I spray a coat of 2330s. Then proceed with flexed sealer, color, and 2 coats of flexed clear.
 
#23 ·
Paint sticks to plastic just fine if you prep it right. I paint plastic on a daily basis and have no problems with adhesion. The first this I use is some DuPont Plas-Stick 2320s to clean the bare plastic. It softens the plastic and then I spray a coat of 2330s. Then proceed with flexed sealer, color, and 2 coats of flexed clear.
Exactly. Plas-Stick A02320S has Methyl Amayl Ketone in it, which is what is softening the plastic. It works just as I described in my post above. 2330 is an actual adhesion promoter specifically for automotive plastics, flexible or not. If you're following their prep/spray directions and using good equipment and practices you're probably getting excellent professional results.
 
#26 ·
Its definently the flex sealer used by oem plus the factory uses a very good clear coat and yes going 3 coats will help but the more clear u put on is not always best i wouldnt go more than 3. Most manufactures also use a electrostatic process in their painting which helps the paint bite and cure harder. When you respray your parts always use sealer and i recomend ppg deltron 2021 clear its a lil pricy but i would never use anything less ive kandy painted and done 100's of custom paints on car and bikes. Cheap clear equals cheap results.


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#30 ·
Its definently the flex sealer used by oem plus the factory uses a very good clear coat and yes going 3 coats will help but the more clear u put on is not always best i wouldnt go more than 3. Most manufactures also use a electrostatic process in their painting which helps the paint bite and cure harder. When you respray your parts always use sealer and i recomend ppg deltron 2021 clear its a lil pricy but i would never use anything less ive kandy painted and done 100's of custom paints on car and bikes. Cheap clear equals cheap results.


Sent from my iPhone using MO Free
Electrostatic process doesn't affect adhesion or cure properties, that is strictly a material, cleanliness, chemical issue.
 
#27 ·
@roost. I totally agree but i find a good flex sealer works good without having to use 2330 for sticks its good but kandys and chameleons tend to have reactions to the promotor i use the 2330 on the raw before sealer but thts it from the sealer i just base kandy clear been workin good for 12 years like that


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#31 · (Edited)
That's true about OEM..... :lol

How many Ford trucks are out there with the hoods and tops completely peeled up off of the primer? That's a colossal FAIL!


speaking of edges, how tough do you think it is to get paint to stay on a sharp edge of a supersonic aircraft? :scared
 
#36 ·
KMAC, my painter is the best guy in the area. He does all the Ferrari and Lambo work for the surrounding dealerships. They will not go anywhere else.

Owner told me the Factories are spraying paint and clear at the same time, like an all in one process. He said this when I took my last set of fairings in to be sprayed.
 
#38 · (Edited)
They're not exactly at the same time, but the clear is sprayed over the base before it's cured as a wet-on-wet application. There are also now basecoats that perform the function of primer and can eliminate having to spray a separate primer. There's also wet-on-wet-on-wet primer/basecoat/clear coat systems. Never heard of someone with a basecoat and clearcoat mixed together and applied at the same time. Not sure how that would even work.
 
#37 ·
i have heard that recently as well.. cost cutting by pre-mixing paint & clear..
 
#39 ·
well consider me schooled.. great thread! :bow