I was going to create a thread asking something similar dunlop has q3 sized 200/50/17 and the R1M requires a 55 profile. Does 5% of tire height make much difference? especially when other tires have different physical profiles and wear.

 

BMW from what I understand states that there will be issues with the electronics specifically the traction control when going from a 190 to a 200 but what I don't get is how can that be the case if the circumferene of the tire between the 190 and 200 end up being the same as is the case of the DOT road race Pirelli tires, the M runs a 200 the base model runs a 190 I would hope jumping up to a 200 would be a non issue

 

We're running 200/60 slicks and using the standard TC/SC maps. OEM wheels are 524mm maximum Diameter, the Pirelli Slicks are 533mm maximum diameter.

All you need to be aware is that the tyre travels slightly further per revolution than the OEM profile when you are vertical. Realistically though, the time when you most want this electrical intervention is when the bike is leaned over. At that time, the tyre is on the part of the profile which has almost exactly the same diameter as the OEM tyres, as they have the same sidewall heights, so there isn't any real need to worry about changing the TC/SC maps.

 

makes perfect sense

 

Using OEM ECU, there will be a diffence in the TC/SCS calculation, but it's not too bad (info from BSB R1 superstock racers).
In the YEC KIT ECU it can be adjusted.

 

So putting a 200/50 Q3 instead of a 200/55 supercorsa, rosso corsa, rs10... is fine. I was thinking about it, with a smaller side profile the rear should be slightly faster than the front making the intervention more sensitive or act stronger than usual... but if someone could tell if it is thats another story.

I think Im going with the Q3 as a 200/50/17 profile.

 

Measure the center diameter & side diameters of the tyres. Although it is nominally a "50" vs the OEM "55", potentially the side diameter could be very similar, however the center diameter will be smaller.

If the centre diameter is smaller, then in comparison to the OEM profile, the TC/LIF will be slightly more intrusive (when upright) at the same setting due to the smaller diameter of the tyre giving the bike a false reading that the rear is going faster than the front even if they aren't slipping. Again, at lean the sidewall is likely almost the same height, so will barely effect the TC/SC intervention.

 

just another input....

I'm racing with Michellin Moto2 slicks 20/69-17 and TC/SC works fine, but you reduce your settings choices because of the different tyre geometry. you need to run between 1 and 2, 3 would cut too much already.

If you want to take the best advantage of the electronics, YEC ECU is the way to go.... you can fine tune this settings.

e.g.: if the TC/SC calibration is not right for the tires you run it can be too intrusive or cut very rapidly and aggressive causing bike instability because of bad calibration.

 

If you want to take the best advantage of the electronics, YEC ECU is the way to go.... you can fine tune this settings.

Yep...but there is no description how to use it or what value to insert.
Strange company......

 

well put guys, ordering q3's as I'm writing this

 

I have the R1 base model (190/55 stock rear size) that I ride track days with. I prefer to run the Pirelli SC slicks where the rear is a 200/60 size. I'm an ex-racer from before the days of TC so I'm familiar with manually controlling slides. What was interesting was that a TC setting of 2 that would intervene with a slide using the SC DOT race tires I tried first (200/55 rear), was not doing much to control slides with the 200/60 slick setup. I had to up the TC setting to 4 to get it to intervene before I would manually. So the difference in tire sizes does seem to effect the traction control , but it appears to within range of the available settings.

 

I have the R1 base model (190/55 stock rear size) that I ride track days with. I prefer to run the Pirelli SC slicks where the rear is a 200/60 size.

SC comes in 190/55 also (I'm using it).

 

The bigger the tyre compared to OEM, the later the TC will kick in - that can be quite some slip you need to get TC working again.
Rule of thumb: every 3mm in additional radius allows 1% more slip before the TC being activated, means TC intervenes later.
If you are changing front and rear, also the front radius changes needs to be included.

 

May I ask where you have this information from ?

If you don't have it from Yamaha engineers that made the algorythm, then I suppose you're guessing.

 

How bloody hard would be to have a simple calibration process for a tyres on the bike. All it would take would be to ride 50 meters at a moderate speed so the system learns what the difference in angular wheel speeds is and then applies whatever allowable slip margins are set in the maps to it. Too easy?
It seems the deeper we go the more dismayed we getting with this whole "track ready" model. Just hype and bullshit from Yamaha Marketing Department we all got hooked on. I hope the next year model will have all these design shortcomings fixed.

 

How bloody hard would be to have a simple calibration process for a tyres on the bike. .

Spot on....Aprilia has used this calibration feature the last 4 years, and it's very easy to use.
No guessing...just calibrate and it's ready.

 

I'm running a 200/50 dunlop q3 on an R1M (original 200/55) So far no issues has come up, no codes and electronic aids are working fine.


*** incase anyone runs their bikes on a rear stand in gear, you will get code 69 pop up. It clears after you first take it out. Code 69 is the front wheel speed sensor no signal so no need to worry about it!

 

When you get that code try to change your settings

 

I just follow'd the instructions in the service manual to clear it.
Not the most logic way...but it worked (I cannot just take a ride, since it's track-only)

 

Do you disconnect the fuel pump for it?

 

GUYS ***** the code clears itself after 20sec of real road speed no need to worry! I just mention that if you run the bike in gear on the stand it will set code 69 but it will clear itself immediately after you take it out for a spin on the street.

 

We all got that. What you didn't get is that going "for 20 sec of real road speed" doesn't help you when you on the track, your session is about to start and you need to load your new settings.

 

I spoke with my Yamaha buddy and inquired about changing the tires AND the brakes. He spoke with a Yamaha test rider, and he said that the electronics were designed/adjusted/calibrated to work with the two *2) tires RS10 and Pirelli (cant recall the model). He also stated that if i changed the brakes (Brembo) and left the ABS that the system WOULD work however the system would react differently, since it was calibrated to work and respond with stock calipers.

He didnt try it, but he inquired (test rider did) and that was the answer he got from the techs

 

You don't need to disconnect the fuel pump. It will run initially however if you don't, which is no big deal as long as the fuel lines remain connected.

 

I wanted to try a 190/55 Q3 vs. the stock 200/55 RS10 for two reasons:
1. $$ the RS10 wears too quickly on street (1000 miles in SoCal canyons)
2. I wanted to see if the Q3 would turn in faster on slower canyons roads.

I too was concerned about the Traction Control calibration.

Here are my findings:
The measured crown circumference of the (worn) 200/55 RS10 was 2025mm.
The measured crown circumference of the (new) 190/55 Q3 was 2040mm.
-both on the wheel ready to ride.

This is a nominal difference and we can assume the RS10 was closer 2040mm when new.

My Data Logging is turned on and I downloaded the Y-TRAC app the other day onto my iPad. Very cool!
I can see that my relative speeds between my front and rear wheel remained consistent during logged (street) sessions before changing to the Q3 and after, for the same stretches of road. So the translated sensor data front and rear did not appear to change. This remained true at 0 to 45 degree lean angles. Since the ECU must look at RELATIVE wheel speeds for the purpose of imposing TC, I'm not concerned about the effect of this change.

I know this isn't very scientific, but it's better than guessing.

Further, I'm not sure how tight the TC calibrations are for wheel circumference, or if the production R1 ECU is calibrated differently than the R1M, but there has to be some tolerance for wear.

 

Not wanting to hi-jack the thread, but I've seached to no avail; if you change sprocket sizes on the R1, how does it affect the TC etc?

 

it doesn't

 

Tire Size as recommended

From the owners manual

 

Ok, that's good to know. How come then there's a concern with different tyre sizes? If the TC works off the front and rear wheel sensors and the slip and wheelie etc works of the brain thingy, then why does a different tyre size confuse things?

 

because as tire size changes (circumference), the speed or the rear wheel is adjusted by some % as relates to the fixed sensor. So a rotation at the sensor is a different speed depending on what tire you have on

 

I agree. Measuring front and rear relative wheel speeds (as well as IMU inputs) to impose TC would be unaffected by gearing changes.

 

I thought the same thing a number of people I have spoken with are suggestion that it's a non issue but you really need to know the diameter of both the stock front and rear tires mounted to know what issues if any will present themselves by going to a 200 rear I've not done the measurements but it would seem worth doing to set a baseline at least

 

All good, like I said before: around 3mm less rear tire diameter mans around 1% less slip do if your TC kicks in at 10% like on my HP4 for instance then now it intervenes ar 9%...oany issue with that which could be tire wear..no, tire wear 3mm, then TC kicks in at 7%...much earlier, so if you are in this area, just adjust your TC to a less intervene level, so far so good right.

On the other side install a rear tyre with 9mm more radius, you TC intervenes 3% later, so on my HP4 then at 13% slip which actually allows you to exit each turn markinwith drawing black lines behind you and TC doesn't intervene-is that an issue, well it could be since your setup is quite outside the normal engaging range.

Since we want to be in control of these things, we need to know what we have changed and what else we need to adjust to make thinks working for me and not against me. So simple make your TC more sensitive if your rear tire is bigger than the OEM for instance and you are fine.

I only want to make you aware that whatever you change you need to know the impact within this whole electronic package... small or big, doesn't matter for me as long as you know the direction of that change.

 

Very true!

BTW - Now I know where your coming from! You own a HP4!! Yes the BMW's can be a bit intrusive with the T/C. Kind of reminds me of a slap on the side by an old school teacher yelling out! "Stop that! STOP IT NOW!" :laugh: Luckily, Yamaha is a bit less "in your face" with the T/C.

 

While not eager to get in the middle of this kerfuffel, when I asked Yamaha corporate about tire size and other changes, they said it will work ok but it won't work as designed. When pressed it was suggested that LIF and slide control need very specific measurements to work correctly and without changing the tire diameter in the ECU settings, it would not work particularly well.

I can vouch that slide control on Dunlop NTEC 200/55 did not seem as "in control" as the factory rs10. NTEC has far more grip but the diameter is not the same.

 

Thanks for the info! So it appears that we will need at least the circuit ECU or possibly the FTECU racer version software to make those adjustments!