Sounds like the fuel pump isn’t working

 

Fuel pump does work, it was checked in diagnostic as well as I can hear it prime with key turned from off to on.

This seems like something ECU related as everything works when checked in diagnostic mode, but when I try to crank no ignition spark or fuel injector firing happens...like a no start condition if certain censors are not working or throwing a code, but I am not seeing any codes stored in the diagnostic mode! Which makes me very puzzled.

 

Diag mode and listening to the fuel pump won’t tell you what the PSI is.

The pump can be working but not pumping at a great enough PSI.

I think it’s suppose to be 47.

 

Crank position or cam position sensor. ECU not seeing signal that engine is turning

 

Both sensors are plugged in and the codes should come up in the diagnostic mode if the sensor information is flawed or sensors are not connected, am I correct in that assumption? I know that those two sensors will be in the no start condition, but should there be a code if when I crank the motor the ecu would throw a diagnostic code stating one of those sensors is not being received or something?

 

I dont think there is a code for lack of those signals. These generation of bikes, were not that advanced. A buddy chased this problem on a Suzuki forever, after a wreck. Ended up being crank sensor wire was broken.

 

Oh wow, thanks for the info, I guess I would need to pull out a multi-meter and get to voltage testing on both sensors then...

I have a manual I downloaded which is why I see fault codes with codes like 11 and 12 associated with those sensors but they are not assigned a diagnostic code, I only get 17 when I turn on the bike since I have no EXUP on it. And assume the 11 or 12 are not showing up because it looks for serious issues with the wiring or sensors not being plugged in! Which in my case are so no codes are being thrown!

The Diagnostic mode only lets you check or diagnose operations for some components, but the Crank or Cylinder sensors they are not present and I guess will not be stored in diagnostic fault code memory!

I wish these bikes would store out of range voltage in diagnostic mode for the two important sensors that will not let the bike start!

 

Crank position would be code 12.

 

That is not something I am eliminating at this time, but I am not smelling fuel through the exhaust, even at half pressure, some fuel should be making it's way into the combustion chamber and out the exhaust, so at this time the issue is trigger related and crank angle and cam cylinder sensors would need to be checked i imagine.

Thanks for all the inputs, keep them coming!

 

Hearing the pump spin and it pumping anything is an assumption you are making. I think you need t start making some 100% eliminations, especially as fuel is one of the biggies.

 

I understand what you mean, I am simply stating that I will be looking into it, but my issue 100% thus far is no Ignition or Fuel activation of the injectors or coils, no signal coming from the ECU to fire those, so this only leads me to the path of making sure the wires from Crank and Cylinder sensors are making their way to the ECU for the ECU to know when to fire the coil and activate the fuel injectors.

 

Did you work out what the issue was I'm having a similar problem with my 05.

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I have not, it's been in storage, so hoping to start troubleshooting back up in the next week or two!

 

does this bike by change have the immobilizer?

 

I don't think so, but I could be wrong, is there a way to check? Since the key is not a chip/smart key and the bike does crank!

I would love it if it was that simple!

 

probably doest;t then i just figured i would ask i have seen some that will crank even with kill switch off and wrong key after wiring harness was messed with by previous owner.

 

What year were those from? And where would the kill switch be located on these to check?

 

the kill switch? its the red switch on the right handlebar. if the pump primes then it should be on, fuel pump isn;t supposed to prime if its off. this seems like an odd issue. my first assumption is that just having had serious work performed like you did i would think something was overlooked like maybe a ground wire like where i think a bunch meet up and bolt to the frame? you would have to check the manual but there is usually one by the rear shock and one inside the frame on the side sometimes one on the top of the motor. i would look at all the wiring for any cuts or breaks. check all the wires are tight in the plugs once when i was removing my coils i pulled a wire just slightly out and could;t tell but it ran on 3 cylinders. took a bit to find. check the cam angle sensor is in all the way and seated properly. how do you know your not getting fuel and spark? what do the plugs look like when you check them? are you just going off the no fuel smell?

 

Thanks for sticking with me, I know about the manual kill red switch, i was talking about the immobilizer as that is normally connected to a relay anyways to cut a start signal. Silly device, but saves a couple mins to any thief trying to hot wire one of these im sure.

I took the plugs and fuel injectors out and tried cranking with no fuel smell or injector activation, same with ignition coil. I have new plugs in there.

All wiring had been checked several times over, even the starter was removed and cleaned to give it extra kick.

I have performed the diagnostics for ignition coils and injectors as well as injector pulsing, all worked so the ECU can control them. Nothing out of the ordinary like a angle sensor out of spec or anything like that that i would think prevents me from cranking.

 

No the immobilizer is done through the ecu it just reads the chip in the key and won't let it spark up. Usually there's a red light on the dash blinking. If everything is as you say it is then it's a bad ecu. Perfect wiring, perfect sensors, perfectly installed but no injector or coil activation? Bad ecu. I'll be honest though I have seen it a thousand times where people work on their bike and when it won't start after and they swear they did it all right it's 997 times that something tiny was overlooked and their confidence in their work causes them to brush over it but giving you the benefit of doubt here I'd have to say bad ecu. Find a buddy you can swap with for testing.

 

With a dead ecu, you usually cannot do anything in diagnostics mode. Test 9 or 7, one of which tests the voltage in the ecu, comes up as 0, instead of 9 to 12.0+ (depending on your battery charge). @OP go into diagnostics mode, and try running tests 50 to 52 (one of them should be testing your fans). If your fans don't kick in, plus your test 7/9 voltage is 0, then you're having an issue with your ecu. It could be dead, or you've got a "power to the ecu circuit" problem.

I just finished building a Frankenstein bike, and I had the exact same symptoms.

First thing I checked was if I was losing compression into the crank case. I was. Turned out my rings were stuck to the piston head.

Fixed that, and it still cranked without starting. Then, I noticed I was getting tiny puffs of air blown back from ALL the intake ports when cranking. Threw out the whole head and replaced the throttle body.

I also found out the contacts inside my ignition had rusted over. So the fuel pump would prime and all that, but, once I start cranking, it'd be like the pump wasnt working. Then I'd go into diag mode and my test for ecu voltage would be zero. I'd tap around the base of the ignition and I'd have a voltage again. I opened up the bottom of the ignition and sanded off the rust.

Bike fires up great now. This was on a 2009-11 I just completed this past weekend.

Hope some of the info here helps.



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With a dead ecu, you usually cannot do anything in diagnostics mode. Test 9 or 7, one of which tests the voltage in the ecu, comes up as 0, instead of 9 to 12.0+ (depending on your battery charge). @OP go into diagnostics mode, and try running tests 50 to 52 (one of them should be testing your fans). If your fans don't kick in, plus your test 7/9 voltage is 0, then you're having an issue with your ecu. It could be dead, or you've got a "power to the ecu circuit" problem.

I just finished building a Frankenstein bike, and I had the exact same symptoms.

First thing I checked was if I was losing compression into the crank case. I was. Turned out my rings were stuck to the piston head.

Fixed that, and it still cranked without starting. Then, I noticed I was getting tiny puffs of air blown back from ALL the intake ports when cranking. Threw out the whole head and replaced the throttle body.

I also found out the contacts inside my ignition had rusted over. So the fuel pump would prime and all that, but, once I start cranking, it'd be like the pump wasnt working. Then I'd go into diag mode and my test for ecu voltage would be zero. I'd tap around the base of the ignition and I'd have a voltage again. I opened up the bottom of the ignition and sanded off the rust.

Bike fires up great now. This was on a 2009-11 I just completed this past weekend.

Hope some of the info here helps.



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Man I’m having issues that sound kinda similar on my 09 I just got. Any chance you’d be free to ask some questions?

 

It sounds like you've been taking a reasonably methodical approach to this, which is good, but there are still too many variables. I had a no start issue last year that was puzzling, until I found the problem and SMH, it made sense. The bike would start intermittently at first. When it started, it ran perfect. It became progressively worse to the point it wouldn't start anymore. I thought it was the starter going bad, just not drawing enough voltage or turning the motor quick enough. It was also helpful during testing to use a running F-150 that was sending~14.4 volts to the starter and doesn't kill your battery. In general I find the R1 hard to start on a good day, the truck battery had a bit more goose and delivered consistent cranking for testing.

Back to the story, it ended up being the fuel pump. It primed, but there was an intermittent blockage. Depending on where it sat determined whether it started or not. The continual pressure kept it at bay, but on each restart the result was different. The gotcha is, I pulled the injectors, primed the pump and had fuel pressure.... that one time I tested it.
After 2 days of hair pulling, I re-did the test and found the issue. To validate the theory, I ended up using a piece of PVC eavestroph and just cutting 4 holes in it, taping up one side, and duct taping it to the velocity stacks. With a squirt bottle, send in fuel in the open side and it would start/run briefly. Not saying this is your issue, but maybe helps tell you if fuel is actually going or not without getting fuel everywhere. Feeding 12V directly to the pump was handy.

Another no-start issue was b/c the brake light fuse tripped for an aftermarket fuel controller (race bike), and once more I made the idiot mistake of plugging the wrong connector into the diagnostic port which caused the ECU to go mental and start throwing random codes.

It would have been nice to have more sensor outputs in the diagnostic menu, one for each sensor.

 

Perhaps you can borrow an ECU to test that theory? Maybe an FZ-10 will work if you can't find an R1 owner?

 

im a little foggy here, did they have fz-10's in the 04-06 era?

 

No they didn't, thought it was a late model for a second, but the rest of the diagnosis is still relevant

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