well, you need 3 things for a motor to work, compression, fuel and spark. I don't know if the R1 motor is an interference motor or not, but I would guess it probably is (most advanced motors that are very high HP tend to be). Perhaps the electronics died or something like a crank sensor or something.

Hope you have full compression across all holes when you check it

Ray

 

probably electricals, check for burned out connections... Sounds like a Reg/Rect.

 

Hey guys, I appreciate all of the advice and input so far.

I went by the shop today, and 3 of my friends with me at the trackday were there (1 being the service manager). We went over to my bike to crank it, and you can definitely hear the pistons chugging up and down in the cylinders. What my friend was saying was that it doesn't sound like the top end is moving at all. Definitely said it's not an electrical issue. To be honest, it doesn't sound all that weird to me, and I know what it sounds like to just turn the motor without firing, as I've changed my oil per the sticky that FiveOh posted by putting it into diagnostic mode and cranking it.

It's scheduled for compression and leakdown tests on Wednesday and we'll go from there. We'll pull the plugs and look around in there with a fiberoptic tool to see what we can see. The two guys at the shop confirmed that it's a very bad sound (or lack thereof) that it's making.

He said he looked through the books and the labor for R&R on the rings is 24 hours. And from what it sounds like I'd be much better off buying a used motor from a wrecked bike. I really wanted to avoid this, but it sounds like it's my best option at this point, assuming the shop is right. It just seems like there's too many unknowns with the used motor route, not to mention I'd lose the engine number matching on the title (although that's only an issue if I try and sell it, which I won't after dumping at least $1000 into it to fix it.



I'm all ears. I'm just not seeing how something electrical woud just go out at WOT like that. It seems much more likely to be a mechanical issue. What does Reg/Rect. mean?

also, the fact that when you shifted you still had power (albeit reduced power) could actually be a positive sign. If something major had let go in the motor, normally there would be a sudden drop in power (usually accompanied by a jolt and/or sound like someone hitting your bike with a 300 lb hammer). Since you didn't have that, it leads me to believe it may be electrical. If it had been something such as a spun bearing, you'd most likely hear that and would have been able to limp the bike back under reduced (and somewhat strange feeling) power. It also normally sounds like a loose marble in your crank case when you rev the motor

So since none of those occurred and the bike just quit, it's probably electrical. The fact that the motor still turns but doesn't fire when you crank the starter is also an indication of no spark probably.

Ray

I hear you on that, it seems odd that it didn't make some nasty noise. And on startup I don't notice it sounding much different than usual. But the two guys at the shop seem convinced the sounds it's making are not good.

How's it turn over? Normal, slow, easier than normal? If it sounds normal while cranking, I'd agree with electrical or fuel. If it's easier/faster than normal, might be burned piston or lack of compression in general.

Seems to turn over pretty normal to my ears, but what do I know.

 

also, the fact that when you shifted you still had power (albeit reduced power) could actually be a positive sign. If something major had let go in the motor, normally there would be a sudden drop in power (usually accompanied by a jolt and/or sound like someone hitting your bike with a 300 lb hammer). Since you didn't have that, it leads me to believe it may be electrical. If it had been something such as a spun bearing, you'd most likely hear that and would have been able to limp the bike back under reduced (and somewhat strange feeling) power. It also normally sounds like a loose marble in your crank case when you rev the motor

So since none of those occurred and the bike just quit, it's probably electrical. The fact that the motor still turns but doesn't fire when you crank the starter is also an indication of no spark probably.

Ray

 

How's it turn over? Normal, slow, easier than normal? If it sounds normal while cranking, I'd agree with electrical or fuel. If it's easier/faster than normal, might be burned piston or lack of compression in general.

BTW, at first when I read the title, my initial thought was physical damage such as going down and cracking the case. At least that's not the issue as then you'd have to buy used and most likely rebuild just to be safe.

 

The service manager is quoting you a complete engine rebuild. Anything mechanical at the speed you're going will make a big pop and you will feel it. For example a a spun rod or a dropped valve. Read about Kmac's dropped valve thread. What you sound like was just a cut in elctrical power. So check the reg/rectifier connection, this is under the subframe. Look for burned out connection. Also another bad sign is a hot bubbled up battery. The battery literally cooking itself. I serious doubt the mechanical and I don't know how close you are to the service manager but I'd think about getting a 2nd opinion.

 

+1

When something major breaks and/or goes wrong, usually you can feel it in the back tire (and lucky if you don't high side or low side as a result of it). Don't forget, the motor is only inches from you on a bike (unlike in a car). If something major lets go at 10K RPM's, usually you are gonna hear something nasty.

Have you checked to see if there is any engine/diag code on the dash and/or if all the lights, etc. operate?

As far as the top end not moving when the bottom end rotates, if the motor is an interference motor (and most likely it is), then that would result in bent valves or pistons smashing into things - you'd hear that sort of stuff

Ray

 

Thanks for all the advice, I really hope you guys are right. Everything said here makes a lot of sense (or maybe my internal optimist of course wants it to be something small).

So let's say my friend is right about the top end not moving when cranking. Could it be the timing chain that broke? Let's say it did, wouldn't we hear loose parts rattling around when cranking it? I do trust the place, perhaps they're just preparing me for the worst.

As far as electronics go, yes, the dash and cluster light up normally. I have a full system, and the code 17 (EXUP error) always shows when I turn the ignition on, the engine light remains on because of this. I haven't cycled through to check for other codes, maybe I'll swing by the shop tonight and try it. I'll also listen for the fuel pump noise, I had forgot to check for it when I ran by there last night.

 

pull the right side cover off in front of the clutch cover and check the chain,easiest way to see it,my old r1 had 24k on the clock and didnt need a chain,but i replaced it with a valve adjustment,turn the engine over and see if you feel exaust air coming from your exaust,simple ideas from a heavy equipment mechanic

 

*************Update**************

The compression test showed ~50psi in the cylinders, it should be up around 200. It's not completely seized up, bound up would be the more accurate description. Pulling the side cover and turning the crank with a socket and wrench required a lot of muscle. Could be the bearing(s), can't be sure until I open it up. The oil didn't have any chunks in it, and it never made any nasty noises. I was quoted at 24 hours of labor to tear it completely down and put it back together, $2000 in labor alone.

A this point it's either get a used motor for $1000-1500, or try and rebuild it myself. Parts won't be much, bearings and rings are cheap. Even if I get a used motor, I'll probably still pull mine apart just to see what actually failed. It's definitely above my skill level, but my time is free and I'm in no rush to get it done. I have the full shop manual as a 457 page .pdf and it would be a great learning experience over the course of a few weekends. Either way, it's a chitty situation.

 

can you pull the headers off and look at the piston skirts and rings through the exhaust ports?

50psi in all cylinders? thats wierd!

 

50psi in all cylinders? thats wierd!

Yes it is. Even if you've lost a crank bearing or something, how does that keep you from obtaining full compression? Either your rings or valves would have to have failed in all cylinders simultaneously, or maybe head gasket, spark plug ports, etc.... this just sounds strange. You sure you trust this dealer?

 

:lol the only common denominator is the person diagnosing the problem. All four pistons losing compression... :no Somebody wants to go on a free european vacation.:fact

 

50 psi in all cylinders? I can't think of anything which would cause all the cylinders to show 50 psi... unless the person doing the compression test doesn't know what they are doing

Maybe all the intake valves fell out of the bike while you were on the track and you just didn't notice?

Ray

 

make sure this isn't your problem!

http://www.r1-forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=247923

Any update on your situation?

Ray

 

make sure this isn't your problem!

http://www.r1-forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=247923

Any update on your situation?

Ray

That's the same thing that happened to me a few weeks ago, except it only took out cyl #2. Nevertheless, I'm still betting it is electrical/fuel delivery problem........ nothing about the data he's given adds up to being real data or leading to an engine rebuild. You never know, though.

 

I have no doubt this will turn into another intake valve issue, but I have NEVER heard of compression dropping to something like 50 psi across the board. Heck... even with a blown head gasket leaking between cylinders the pressure would be different across all four.

And Kmac's motor sounded like a popcorn popper with his broke valve. :fact

 

And Kmac's motor sounded like a popcorn popper with his broke valve. :fact

:cryin ...ohhhhhh the agony.

 

yeah, I still am betting electrical. Maybe fuel, but I am leaning (no pun intended towards electrical. One thing is for sure, I'm very skeptical of this shop he has involved

Ray

 

The wiring of the Cams sensor broke whit the fans check that and the left engine side have a red connector that turns off the engine ,but if you have 50psi ,interior problems ,valves broke

 

valves on all 4 cylinders? :no

I think the mechanic did a pressure test with the head off. :crash

 

:lol

 

Yes and no. Did they try turning the engine via breaker bar with compressed air in the cylinder? :dunno

 

Make a deal with him and have him sign the contract:

You'll authorize the teardown. But, you want to be there while it's being done to visually inspect everything. If there's actual mechanical failure that isn't covered by any kind of warranty (if you have extended warranty), you'll pay for it. But, if there isn't any, he covers the complete and TOTAL cost to reassemble the engine as well as the repair of what they real problem is.

 

Same thing happened to me. You floated a valve. This damaged the head
piston, conrod on that cylinder. Im just getting mine back together. If you
wants pics I can send them