Here are the vids they wouldn't compress on this app


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Damnit also failed to mention....5VY 2004


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At least determine if it's electrical or fuel related. Pull a plug and see if it sparks.

Mark

 

Update to the progress:
Took starter out rebuilt, good
Spark good
Timing good
CCT good
Fuses good
No trouble codes
No odd numbers in diag mode....
Here are some of the new vids for you guys.

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Update:
Compression is way off and cylinder 4 isn't registering at all on the compression test.....great. So looks like either valves/piston rings/gasket (which ruling out due to being new) so looks like I'm breaking the cases again....


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Do yourself a favor and do a cylinder leak down before you tear it apart... If you don't know how check YouTube
If your compression tester has a removable hose attach it to your air compressor line and put air in the cylinder at TDC and see if it's going out the exhaust or intake or crankcase breather. Did you put knew valves in and not check clearances? Or mix up the pucks locations?

 

How many miles did you have on the bike?

 

36,000 indicated but I'm estimating 30,000 due to no speedo healer from the guy I bought it from. -1 +2 so it was off a good bit till I got a healer about 2 months ago.


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Update:
Swapped the 04 head with an 06 I had bought earlier on in the build, clearances good, and right after install BEFORE cams went on leak down was within acceptable range 10-18% leakage. Put cams in according to manual at TDC CYL 1 and alignment dots were almost spot on off by maybe a quarter tooth turn on the intake side. Re torqued everything buttoned up radiator, tubing, and wiring harnesses. Tank installed and looked over codes again, all from where I had everything in hooked. Good.

Cranked up on first go......however didn't sound too pretty. Then shut off on its own about 45 seconds later....won't crank again....correction won't start. It cranks fine just no bang


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Didn't sound to pretty could mean anything lol! Like missing on one cylinder, knocking, rattling?
If it just sounds like a miss check the plugs and coils then fuel

 

Thinking I didn't install CCT correctly, so I'm checking on that tomorrow after work. And it's ticking coming from the right side motor, can't be bearings as they looked great when I was checking each one. No scoring or discoloration. On journal bearings or rod bearings. And I'm firing on all cylinders (all header pipes were hot at the exit.) started it again this morning and did the same thing - however it shut off immediately after I turned the throttle even a little bit, then wouldn't start back up, just turned over constantly after about 3 turns made a sputter every time. Which has me thinking: Fuel pump, maybe sitting for 2 months did something?

Anyway after watching videos online on "ticking" I believe it's the CCT or something not set correctly on valves. So I'm going to pull the cover AGAIN, to see if I skipped a tooth and correct the CCT (I didn't set the pin at full close as per manual). Also going to try and re sync the TB's while I'm in there.

I'm just ready to ride........


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Where I put my hand I have slight vibration so thinking CC or CCT


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That sounds way louder then a cct! Sounds more like a valve issue, bent or hitting piston possibly, id do another cylinder leak down and see before I ran it anymore..
And the way it dies seems like it's bleeding off compression then stalling

 

Thanks again zac for the help, I'm just thankful that it "is" actually running although bad it's better than not so I can pin point the issue, rules out fuel pump I think. I'll do another leak down in the morning and post my findings.


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I can't see videos here from work, but from what I can read I'd be willing to bet that upon reassembly you didn't get the CCT to engage properly before cranking the engine over with the starter and skipped a tooth on one of the cams. It's enough to keep the bike from starting, but just enough that hard parts don't hit. I don't know if you turned the engine over by hand first or not, but you should and do it slowly. You will see the cam chain tension when it engages. A light tap with a rawhide or other soft material mallet on the CCT will help disengage the holding mechanism for the CCT when doing this.

FWIW, I made this same mistake when putting the head back on my 07. It would crank all day but wouldn't catch and idle. The problem ended up being that the cam chain skipped a tooth on the exhaust cam gear when I cranked it over with the starter with out making sure the CCT was properly engaged.

 

I can't see videos here from work, but from what I can read I'd be willing to bet that upon reassembly you didn't get the CCT to engage properly before cranking the engine over with the starter and skipped a tooth on one of the cams. It's enough to keep the bike from starting, but just enough that hard parts don't hit. I don't know if you turned the engine over by hand first or not, but you should and do it slowly. You will see the cam chain tension when it engages. A light tap with a rawhide or other soft material mallet on the CCT will help disengage the holding mechanism for the CCT when doing this.



FWIW, I made this same mistake when putting the head back on my 07. It would crank all day but wouldn't catch and idle. The problem ended up being that the cam chain skipped a tooth on the exhaust cam gear when I cranked it over with the starter with out making sure the CCT was properly engaged.

Thanks hooligan, i did install it incorrectly. I put it back in at full extension. So that is very possible. Tonight I pulled it out drained the oil in the cavity and pushed it in and clipped the retaining clip over it - then took the shaft cover off and "manually" slapped at the chain and "click" it engaged perfectly. However it had turned over before this point so it may have already skipped a tooth.

I'm pulling the radiator and cover tomorrow during my leak down to see if I've damaged anything and any leakage through the valves. While I'm in I'll also post if i indeed skipped a tooth.

Would skipping a tooth still allow it to run? Minus the tapping everything else is operational.

When you do watch the vids: would it create that racket?

Again thank you for your help.


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To my knowledge/experience, skipping a tooth would not allow it to run. But if it skipped a tooth on the intake, it might be possible. I can't tell much from the first four videos other than the battery needs charged or replaced. The fifth video does indeed sound kind of bad. It is very possible that the timing is off. That is the first thing I would (re)check anyway. And how about the 06 head that you put on? Did you check valve clearances before you installed? That could be another possible thing to look at. If this were my bike, I would reuse my original head if nothing was damaged.

I'll keep watching the thread to see where this goes and what the solution is. You sound like a better than average mechanic, so I'm sure you'll get it.

Just out of curiosity, where are you located?

 

Thank you, wasn't able to get into the garage this morning unfortunately so it may be tomorrow afternoon before I can get some numbers. And valve clearances were all within spec or out by 1-2mm not bad at all. But I will check again when I get cams out and begin checking valves after the leak down readings.

I'm near like just north of Auburn, AL


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Sub

 

Will be workin on it this afternoon. Just wanted to appreciate everyone's help so far. Things I'll be doing:

Radiator removal
Leak down tests
Shim check
Removing cams
Checking cam lobes
Inspecting cam chain

Hope to find the issue but I'll do better about posting pics and find a resolution today



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Well have a verdict....gotta be a stuck valve intakes in #4 all others were reading 10-15% leakage. Think that is a head scratcher to me is when I did the leak down WITHOUT cams installed just for shits and giggles while all valves are closed with no pressure on them I was reading all good on all 4 cylinders??? But when I put ON the cams and did another leak down I was leaking in number 4.

Damn thing is what are the odds of having this kind of leakage on both the '04 and '06 intakes?? '04 intake was stuck open on valve 2 intake cylinder 4. '06 I won't know if stuck, broken, bent ect until I get a full day of working on it. Until then I'm going to clean up and lap the 04 head and get what I can done in between work


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Well have a verdict....gotta be a stuck valve intakes in #4 all others were reading 10-15% leakage.

Think that is a head scratcher to me is when I did the leak down WITHOUT cams installed just for shits and giggles while all valves are closed with no pressure on them I was reading all good on all 4 cylinders??? But when I put ON the cams and did another leak down I was leaking in number 4.


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Ding ding the second half of this answers it for me check valve clearance WITH CAMS INSTALLED and torqued to spec on TDC of the compression stroke. If it doesn't leak without the cams that tells me it's to tight and holding a valve open AS LONG AS TIMING IS RIGHT you have your culprit :sunglasses:
Even when cams installed at TDC of the compression stroke there should be 0 downward force from the cam on the valve train because your on the base circle of the cam and should have your required clearance if not change the valve pad to make it right
Also inspect the cam lobes themselves

 

Update:

Will be in garage tomorrow afternoon and the day after to complete checks for valve clearances. Going to be lapping and cleaning up the '04 head as well got all the supplies today all except shims, what I'll do for now is micrometer the existing shims in the '04 head and document those. If it's one that I have needed for the '06 head already I'll use those and get a shim kit later on in case I need one for the '04. I'll post my findings after


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Following this post, keep us up to date OP, id like to know the outcome good luck!

 

Appreciate the support, hopefully in about two days I'll have the thing back up to 100% fingers crossed. Then plastics off to paint finally!


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Update:

All I had time to do tonight was breakdown and clearances, below is a pic of the clearances in mm it's goofy but it works, all of the intakes seem fine but the exhaust are way off, of course I could be doing it wrong, I wrote down the size that fit with a slight amount of pull to it. Also pictured is my alignment which it shows intake off by maybe 1/2-1 tooth.

I took a video as well but haven't put it on YouTube to upload easier, but as I turn the crank by hand you can hear the compression leaving the throttle body with it hissing. It hisses through the entire turn (compression and BDC). So questions are:

Think it may be just stuck open somehow? But why would it be completely closed when I did a leak down without cams?

Why would it leak with two different cams? Rules out a bad cam right? Plus micrometer on the lobes suggest that it is within spec.

Maybe bent valve somehow?

Tips? Or what to check next?

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Without the cams in, your valves are completely seated as they have no pressure at all against the buckets forcing them open. If you are getting valve leakage with the cams installed, then your shims are too big (too thick) and your buckets are making contact with the lobes and forcing the valve open. Sounds like you need to shim them to a looser spec (i.e. use thinner shims). The slight loss of compression would be enough to keep your bike from running properly or even running at all.

And those index marks on the cam are enough to throw your timing off as well. They need to be spot on.

Keep at it! You'll get it!

 

Thanks hooligan, even with 13mm clearance that would make it like that, that's only 2mm larger than minimum requirements for the intake according to the shop manual, think I should go down to 11 (bare minimum) to see? Haven't taken lobes off yet hopefully have enough time tonight to get the sizes of existing shims and hope I have the right size to fix.

Exhaust valves seem to be out of speck by 5-6mm but Im not having any leakage through them at all.


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This is a bit out of my area of knowledge, but could you be getting an incorrect leak down test on the exhaust side because your cam is off a bit? I know you mentioned it was the intake-side cam that was off by a tooth or two, but both cams run together... Might be talking out of my @$$ because this isn't something I've tried before, I only have a high-level understanding. (Hence why I'm sub'd to this thread).

Another question regarding your clearances... Do you by any chance mean .11mm instead of 11mm? I'm just picturing an 11mm socket in my head and think "That's way to much clearance".

 

This is a bit out of my area of knowledge, but could you be getting an incorrect leak down test on the exhaust side because your cam is off a bit? I know you mentioned it was the intake-side cam that was off by a tooth or two, but both cams run together... Might be talking out of my @$$ because this isn't something I've tried before, I only have a high-level understanding. (Hence why I'm sub'd to this thread).



Another question regarding your clearances... Do you by any chance mean .11mm instead of 11mm? I'm just picturing an 11mm socket in my head and think "That's way to much clearance".

Yes thank you for spotting that correction.

And as for the leakage I have an audible sound and air pressure coming from the throttle bodies (intake) and listening to the rear of the bike there is no sound coming out of the exhaust.


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subbed

 

Retested everything last night with cams on and off. With the cam at TDC #4 leaked intake side with large amount of air coming out of it. So for sh*ts and giggles I turned the the crank and faced the cam lobes for #4 directly up then did another test. No leakage - which equaled out to be .11mm clearance. Took the cams out with #1 at TDC for reference when I put them back in. Did another leak down.....and I had leakage in #4 intake???

Guess is rather than shim clearance is stuck intake or bent intake.

Or am I wrong and do another test just to be safe? I have cams off and the shim size on all three are (from left to right facing front of engine) *189 *unreadable *189

Going to pick up a valve spring compressor today and do a deep clean on the '04 head.

Any tips? Questions? Direction. Lol? I'm open


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Not sure of you can on these heads but can you do a flashlight test, take the head off and with the #4 intake in the assumed closed spot shine a light down the intake and see if there is light, you also may need to clean and lap the valves to get a truer seal if you find they are true

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I don't have direct Yamaha head experience but I have had to do blueprints of engines when I went to UTI

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When doing valve testing on these engines, and starting at TDC #1, isn't the order 1,2,4,3 for each 90° turn of the crank? It almost sounds like you're testing in the wrong order? Not saying you are, just seems strange that you'd experience leakage, make a turn, then have no leakage.

*Disclaimer: never done this before, just hoping to say something that triggers a light bulb.

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He should be able to see the cam lobes facing away from the bucket...

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