pretty much all your braking is in the front... i'd only use my rear brake on the track to change my line mid turn (where using the front would wash you out) otherwise i'd avoid it.

 

I agree 100%, only one other time do I touch the rear brake, if coming into a turn under hard braking and the bike starts to get squirly under me, Ill touch it just for a second to settle it back down

 

Both Kieth Code and what immortal are saying make sense and I have heard immortal's advise before. Personally, I also have never touched it but need to start.

 

I only used it like immortal said. I let air into the line to keep it from engaging to hard mid-turn.

 

so coming off a straight into a hard turn, do you guys use a lot of engine braking? right now im not using that much because i dont downshift till the end of my braking(another thing i read in codes book)....it just seems so hard on the brakes, they fade like hell......thats why i was thinking about using the rear too for extra stopping power

 

I do downshift a lot but I've been told too much and to do more like what your doing instead. BUT, all the braking power is in your front anyway if your using them right. If your having fading problems, look into doing some mods. Ceramic pads, vented calipers, there's a lot of little gizmos they sell these days to address that issue.

 

The rear brakes won't give you much extra stopping power, if any. When you are hard on the front brakes the rear wheel gets light ( weight transfers to the front). Using the rear brakes can easily lock the rear wheel. What type of brake fluid are you using? Most racing fluids can handle higher temps and decrease fading.

 

I rely on engine braking and the slipper clutch to control my rear wheel braking and it works well, when I accidently shift into neutral there's a big change in chassis attitude. I could take my rear brake off and it wouldn't bother me abit.

 

Watch the superbike racers-they seem to keep foot on it till last second then shift foot for knee down at last second!

 

i wish i had money for a slipper clutch, but even so i wanna work my skill level up more before i really start upgrading. i know what you guys mean by using the rear....i read you should use it towards the end of braking because that will be when forces are starting to push on the rear a little. i mainly was thinking about doing that becuase of the heavy brake fade i was getting in the front brakes. so i was thinking maybe i was overusing them.....but now that i actually checked today, the fluid i put in there isnt synthetic. i just bought some motul racing fluid today (damn that shit costs!), and on the back i saw theres a hell of a deference in the boiling points. so imma put that in there an see how she feels next track day. imma eventually upgrade everything on my brakes,but seeing i dont have money like that now, i rather spend it on track days!:rock

 

The Motul fluid should help. Let me know how well it works.

 

I only use the rear brakes in the wet or on poor surfaces.

But then I'm a noob in this company and haven't been to a trackday yet, but I brake hard enough for the rear to lose traction and wiggle around a bit on my 08. I try to do my downshifting just before and during braking with blips on the throttle and letting the clutch out inbetween each gear, and to be honest I'm quite busy with all of this and getting a good entry and line at the same time...

I'll keep your advice in mind Aron213, sounds very reasonable.

I'll definately try it out inbetween all the braking, blipping, downshifting and countersteering once I get around to it

 

I use the rear all the time, every time I brake. I also use it occasionally in turns to correct a line if I come in a bit too hot, as was mentioned before, but you have to be careful of how much pressure you put on the pedal. Locking it up could end up really bad.

 

Good to burn my first post on a great topic like this!

Depends on the track- smooth tracks are great for "backing it in" where you force the rear wheel out by over braking it a bit and that gives you a better line. That few extra degrees of turn means a lot when you're pushing it hard. Think of it like flat tracking it in to scrub off excess speed. work up to it, because it's a fine line between braking and breaking!

Watch the big boys on TV. Their back tires leave black marks heading in.

 

Pay particular attention to #15.
Kevin Schwantz Suzuki School: Motorcycle Race Track Tips, Texas-Style
30-plus KSSS-approved things to do at your next track day


writer: Mitch Boehm
photographer: George Roberts




1. Increase your speed incrementally.
2. Find and use reference points for braking, turn-in and apex.
3. Focus your vision way out front.
4. Select a gear that uses 60-80 percent of redline at the exit.
5. Be loose on the bike and bars, not rigid.
6. Get body position set for corners early.
7. Hang off slightly--and comfortably--in corners.
8. Use your legs to move you around the bike, not your arms.
9. Go slow when learning a new track. Get the flow first.
10. In the wet, be super-smooth with all control inputs.
11. Ride with the balls of your feet on the pegs at all times.
12. Weight the inside peg entering corners.
13. Weight the outside peg at the apex and exiting corners.
14. Perfect practice makes perfect--helps muscle memory.
15. Ignore the rear brake.
16. Walk the track if possible.
17. Don't apex early; late apex whenever possible.
18. Get to neutral throttle ASAP approaching the apex.
19. Apply smooth but forceful throttle exiting a corner.
20. Keep body movements small or smooth while cornering.
21. Braking distances increase exponentially with speed.
22. Monitor chassis feedback through hands, feet and butt when braking.
23. Ease off the brakes smoothly as you lean the bike into a corner.
24. Brake in segments: first 10 percent (to settle chassis), then 75 percent (hard braking), then 15 percent (releasing smooth toward apex).
25. Get hard braking done early; don't wait till you see God!
26. Passing tip: Let off the brakes sooner and carry a bit more speed into the corner.
27. Release the brake more slowly than you initially grab it.
28. Ride a bicycle for leg strength and cardiovascular training; it'll make you a better rider!
29. Control panic by being in control at all times; resist the temptation to go beyond your personal comfort envelope.
30. If you get in too hot, look where you want to go, relax and will yourself to make the corner.
31. Resist the temptation to tuck completely behind the bubble; sitting higher allows you to see more, which helps nail your braking and turn-in points.
32. If you crash, get wide. It resists flipping.

 

I read that Kevin crashed the last time he used the rear brake on the track and he decided to never use it again.

 

No rear brake on track.
Front brakes only are all you need especially when braking in a straight line.
You see the MotoGP boys using it sometimes but I think that they're only using it to settle the rear end rather than for any real braking power (IMO).

 

I'm with you, the rear really doesn't slow down the bike.
But you can use the rear brake for turning.......well the top riders can, not me.

 

I never use the rear brake, street or track. Never. The only time I touched the rear brake in the last year was when my front brakes failed. I ended up having no rear brakes either because I never had touched them and they weren't pumped up. Front brakes only.

 

yeah, I replace my fluid up front atleast annually! The rear looks like coca cola! I am afraid if I did use it my piston would stick.

 

Lots of riders use their brake on the track. Rossi is one of them; he likes to step the rea out on tight turns to change his line/quicken his turn. That takes a lot practice and skill to get it right. I don't use it that much on the track myself, but I use it a lot on the street.

 

:thumbup

I'll use the rear about 10% of the time, mostly just to stabilize the rear and to change line pre and post mid apex.

 

The rear brake can also be usefull to smooth the transition from off throttle to on throttle when getting out of corners. I will also use it when getting onto bad surfaces like gravel when pulling off a road. I've watched a friend crash twice at very low speed with front brake used on a change of surface! Not nice. Also usefull in traffic when you are stopped or going so slow the throttle is a bit on off. Riding the back brake and adding a bit more throttle can smooth things out a bit and releive the clutch hand from fatigue.

Geoffro

 

Rear brakes are good for slippery surfaces when you are straight up and down.

For example, I had an off track moment and used the rear brake to keep the front from washing out.

I also use it when I need a quick stop, also straight up, on the street. It may not make much of a difference, but when inches count, I will take them.

 

Use the front only, I was having brake fade too then I changed to ss lines, problem solved!