Flat front tire. Complicates things a bit.

 

well that was a big help

 

I thought that was a good answer. Have you changed anything on you bike or is it the same as before but the bars just feel heavier?

 

Sorry man (I hope you at least got a good chuckle--although tire pressure does affect significantly your bike's steering). After giving your post some more thought, I've come up with two more possibilities (one machine-related, the other rider-related):

1) Overly tight/worn steering-head bearings; and

2) Unconsciously tensing up your forearms/upper body and failing to distribute your steering inputs parallel (i.e. efficiently) to the clip-ons.

You can eliminate the first possibility by simply inspecting your front end. If you have a front-end stand, simply elevate the front wheel and check to see that it moves freely from lock to lock.

As far as the second possibility goes, if you are tensing up excessively, you're likely placing steering inputs almost perpendicularly to the plane of movement of your clipons. This is not particularly efficient and would explain your description of the bars "feeling excessively heavy." It's not uncommon for people (including yours truly) to realize that body language/positioning affects significantly the way a bike handles and steers. You can eliminate this possibility by analyzing your body inputs, consciously relaxing and making sure your steering inputs are distributed in line with the plane of movement of your clipons. If your problem persists, it's in all likelihood mechanical in nature.

I hope that helps. I'm just curious. You don't have a steering damper do you? I'll let you fill in the blanks...

 

Yes I did get a chuckle.

My bike is all stock. I consider myself a smooth rider and am not a strong believer in the steering dampers. I don't hold the bars tight so I don't see much need for one. Don't have problems with slappers

Last time I checked I had about 35psi in the front and usually run about the same for the rear.

The curves I'm having trouble with are "Deal Gap" like tight turns. They are at the speed where I could use 1st gear but usually just put her in 2nd. It's these lower speed turns where I'm REALLY having to work the bars and I just don't get it.

One particular stretch is called WarWoman Rd in NC. I'd accelerate hard out of the turn usually leaving a *****, hit the brakes, go into the turn and I'm having to muscle it in order for her to turn in. A couple weeks ago when I rode this stretch I wasn't being very smooth on the transition. I may have been overloading the suspension from all the hard braking and hard acceleration. The curves are packed in pretty tight...who knows.

hmmm, never considered steering head bearings...

I'm usually very conscious of numba 2 (pun intended). am always analyzing and re-analyzing my body position. When I'm hanging off my inside armpit is usually over the filler cap. I'm usually steering using the palm heel also...I don't think it's from being too tense...I'll keep it in mind.

Ya know, it feels like the force is coming BACK at me

 

Here's a trick you might try. Steer with just the inside hand. Leave the other hand off the bar or as light as possible. That should eliminate any question of being tense or body position causing the problem. But be careful. One guy tried this at the track and ran off the inside. He wasn't expecting the bike to turn so fast.

 

Yeah Cisco, that's pretty much what I'm doing. I'm only pushing with the palm heel of the inside hand. My outside hand barely has a grip on the bar...

 

Sounds like you've got things pretty much under control.

The only thing I can think of relates to your suggestion of "overloading the suspension from all the hard braking and hard acceleration." It reminds me of the classic rules against charging corners.

Could it be that due to excessive entrance speed (at least for these "Deal Gap" corners), you're not finishing your "hard braking" *before* you initiate your steering inputs. If so, almost regardless of your body-positioning, you might find it difficult to steer your bike, primarily because you're not really doing so.

Other than that, I'm at a loss. As you know, a bike becomes less inclined to turn the faster you go. In addition, a bike typically steers quicker when the front suspension is compressed due to the reduction in steering geometry. Surely something else must be going on to counteract the effects of these forces.

Maybe the darker forces are at work. Ever considered a motorcycle shaman?

 

Hmm, no I am finishing all my braking before turn in. Actually, in this particular scenario, I was overbraking, turning in and gently applying the throttle. Didn't have time to apply throttle before the turn in cuz the curves are so tight together and I was going pretty fast.

damn, your stumped just as much as I am then. What kind of curves are you riding?

as far as the dark forces working against me...lol...whole nother thread


:lol

 

oh, and as far as "charging the corners"...guilty I usually try and maintain a smooth transition between the curves it was just that this day I felt like taking it up a notch...I was feeling good. My usual MO is to approach said curve and use a combo of engine braking and front brakes...dip in get on the gas and roll hard out of the curve...all the while remembering to breathe, stay light on the bars and be smoooooth.

However, there is another road I ride more often that is just as twisty and even when I'm using my method above the bars still feel exceptionally "heavy"

 

Ok. This is my last shot.

First, you began by describing your R1's steering as "heavy" in relation to your experiences on an R6. Well, provided that your riding style is substantially similar when riding both, no one is going to argue against the fact that an R6 steers much quicker than a stock (i.e. geomety) R1.

Second, when I first picked up my 02 R1, I noticed almost immediately that it steered slower than some of my previous bikes. I noticed this in slower corners, too. However, I lowered the front end by raising the fork tubes in the triple clamps 4mm. Big difference. If you haven't already tried it, give it a whirl. I've heard good results when the fork tubes are raised anywhere between 3-5mm. Also, your choice of tires makes a big difference. My bike's steering quickened significantly when I switched to Metzler M1s. But let's get back to your initial post.

Maybe you're noticing the difference in steering between the R6 and R1 so much in slower corners because that's where you're most aware of the entire steering process. I don't know about you, but I'm more inclined to toss my bike on my knee at 40 mph than 140 mph on the street. If this is the case, you'll be attaining greater lean angles which require more decisive and complete steering inputs. Hence, your greater awareness of the comparatively slower-steering R1.

Aside from that, I'm spent. If you're satisfied with your description of "struggling pushing the bars," I'd be inclined to check for mechanical problems. After all, although the R1 is no R6 in the steering department, it's also no Goldwing either. You shouldn't have to struggle to get an R1 through any turn.

Good luck!

 

Did you buy the bike used?

 

no, she was a virgin

it was an 03 600RR not an R6...sorry I was being funny...

 

Could the trail be off? I'm not sure how it would be possible, but could someone who knows , tell us?

 

Randall thanks for the info

When you raised the tubes did this have an adverse reaction as far as making the bike more prone to head shake? Are you using a damper?

As best as I can remember, the steering has been heavy in the tighter turns since day one.

One other variable to add in is that the downhill turns were especially bad. I have been practicing on one particular road that has less severe downhill curves and the more gas or more speed I carried through the turn the easier the turn in was...

 

How old is the front tyre? Is it scollped? Is it the OEM Dunlop? You may find a decent new front tyre will help enormously even if the old one doesn't look worn out.

 

I'm not sure what "scollped" is??

The Dunslop's are crappola. I have Pilot Sport's and they work great for the most part. After the last ride I did notice the tread is down past the wear indicator in one particular area practically the whole circumference of the tire...about 1/2 inch from center on either side. Otherwise the tire has plenty of tread after maybe 3K miles on it.

 

I'm not sure what "scollped" is??

The Dunslop's are crappola. I have Pilot Sport's and they work great for the most part. After the last ride I did notice the tread is down past the wear indicator in one particular area practically the whole circumference of the tire...about 1/2 inch from center on either side. Otherwise the tire has plenty of tread after maybe 3K miles on it.

Scolloped is when the tread gets steps in it. ie the tyre surface is not even. Mine always end up like this. I think its from braking hard into turns. It makes the bike steer badly.

 

gotchya. The front of my 99 CBR9 used to do that pretty bad but I think it was my style. I use to engine brake a tremendous amount and wouldn't get back on the gas soon enough and I think I was inadvertently scrubbing speed off using the front tire.

Since the R1 handles so much better I can just carry the speed all the way through...

 

I'm not sure what "scollped" is??

After the last ride I did notice the tread is down past the wear indicator in one particular area practically the whole circumference of the tire...about 1/2 inch from center on either side.

Dude...that is the calling card of the perverbial flat front tire...CHECK YOUR PRESSURE! Did the same thing to my stock dunflop when I first got the bike...Now I check pressure every time I put a leg across the thing...

 

These symptoms sound exactly like the prob i had, i picked up a used R1, and from the first time out it was really heavy to turn, noticably more so going slower. I couldn't work out what the problem was, tyre pressure was good, everything checked out.
Turns out that there was some kind of deformity in the tyre..got it changed and..problem solved, handles lovely now

Not that this is the same problem, just something else to look at.

 

I checked the tire pressure and it was low. 30psi instead of the usual 34. Went for a ride saturday and didn't really get a chance to test out in the tight stuff.

thanks for the tips.

 

Randall thanks for the info

When you raised the tubes did this have an adverse reaction as far as making the bike more prone to head shake? Are you using a damper?

As best as I can remember, the steering has been heavy in the tighter turns since day one.

One other variable to add in is that the downhill turns were especially bad. I have been practicing on one particular road that has less severe downhill curves and the more gas or more speed I carried through the turn the easier the turn in was...

Since raising the fork tubes, I haven't really noticed any excessive headshake. I don't run a steering damper, either. It's probably not the best set-up for top-speed runs, etc., but for back-road scratching, it's proved pretty reliable. The main thing for me was dialing in my suspension settings. Overall, I can't argue with the results.

Good luck!

 

Check the Air press.

Bought a New YZF 1000..Fall of 1997. The dealer so called preped the bike for me..Yea right the front tire had about 15 psi. I couldn't believe that this bike would stear that way. First Sport Bike, so didn't know any better. I drove it in the parking lot and was like WTF...broght it back to get air....Just my experience.

 

Since I had been riding with low pressure in the front it had worn the tire a little strange and it also made the bike handle odd. It would turn in pretty fast. I put a new tire on friday and took her for a spin on saturday. Made sure the pressure was at 35psi. The bike felt really good and the turn in was more smooth instead abrupt. I did ride a pretty tight road and it felt alot better. Guess it was the combination of proper psi and a fresh front tire. So far it looks like the magical psi for me is 35 front and rear