[revshed]

Okay guys, here's my setup:

'01 R1, Graves full system, Dynojet stage one needles; clip in 4th groove from top, 130 mains, 15 pilots with airscrews turned 3 turns out from seated, Ivan's airbox mod with K&N, AIS removed, stock cams degreed to 102I and 104E. I set the float height using a float guage, and set the bottom of the float 7.5mm below the top of the float bowl.


Now for my problem:
I'm getting a buildup of black soot inside my brand new pipe! I am pretty sure this is from a rich condition, which I can understand in my mid range since I just raised the needles to get rid of the bog on transition from idle to lower mid range(I was getting soot buildup before I raised the needles). However, the bike seems like it's running too rich at idle, it idles very rough and when you take off from a stop, if you gas and let the clutch out, it bogs until you let off the throttle a little. Further, when the bike is cold, it will idle around 1100Rpm, but after it's good and warmed up(ridden) the idle climbs to 1500 or 1600 rpm.

I'm beating my head on the wall trying to get rid of the bog off idle and I think I might be going the wrong way but I don't see how I can be too rich with the stock pilots and the airscrews only 3 turns out. Could it be my float height?

Thanks for any and all suggestions, I've been through the carbs so many times that I wake up sometimes and I've got the carbs out of my bike and half torn apart...it has to stop!

 

[martinc]

Floats height seem to be near stock figures,so rule that out.

Although I dont like to mess with those...

Put the needles back in the 3rd groove...you"ve richen the low rpms mixture a bit doing it.

Black sooth on a straight-through pipe,if you do a lot of commuting and city driving as well as let the bike on choke (cold temps) a bit longer than necessary is normal.

Balance the carbs (synch) everytime you mess inside of them.

Try 1/2 turn in further on the mix screws.

 

[revshed]

The carbs are synched everytime I play with them. The first time I started the bike and let it idle(not choked) I got soot in the pipe after about 5 minutes of idling. Are you suggesting to turn the airscrews in a half turn or out a half turn?

 

[martinc]

IN leans it
OUT richen it

 

[yamaguy]

The best thing for you to do is get your bike to a dyno shop with a gas analyzer, the fact that you have done "Ivan's" airbox mod and are not using his needles could mean that for starters your main jet is not right. You may need a 132.5 or larger, but it will be best determined on a dyno.

With your existing setup, like Martin says go with the needle on the 3rd clip, 4rth your running rich. Also, you think your rich on the bottom when you're actually lean. Try adjusting the fuel screw out in 1/4 turn increments until your idle stabilizes. The carb sync will also affect idle quality so you may only see a slight improvement if it is too far off.

 

[revshed]

Okay, today I reset the float height to 10mm instead of 7.5mm (measured with the float bowls off). I also replaced the stock 15 pilot with the DynoJet 18 and turned my airscrews to 1.5 turns out and lowered my needles to the 3rd clip position from the top. Bogs just as bad if not worse than my setup previously, idle speed still varies by about 400 rpm between cold and warm...does this tell anybody anything...or are you just going to tell me to take it to a Dyno shop?

 

[Flying_98_R1]

Your gonna beat your brains in doing it the way you are doing it, The only way you are gonna get it right is to put it on a dyno. Even then after it is all set up you are gonna sorry to say have a stumble some where thats the disadvantage to jetting they are designed for mid to high rpm not your daily commutes. You can try a flo commander on the pilots and idol circuit and that might help. It has cured some peoples problems. Other than that Good luck

 

[martinc]

First of all,a rule of thumb when you mess with carbs:

DO 1 CHANGE AT A TIME.

Now you enlarged the pilots fuel jets,but are struggling them by opening the mixture screws 1.5 turns!

1 thing you got to understand concerning the pilots fuel jets and mixture screws...they are related.

--->A mixture screw shouldnt be opened more than 4 turns out,and shouldnt be opened less than 2.5 turns out.

More than 4 turns out and you risk loosing a screw,and it also means that your pilot fuel jets size is too small.

Less then 2.5 turns out means that your pilot fuel jets size is too big.

10mm on the floats is to be used specifically with custom needles (if your DJ inst. tells you to do that,fine).

One more thing;

Where the hell did you find those cam figures?

Do you really expect to make power with those?

You should be aiming for at least 108 intake and 98-100 exhaust.

Anything else aint worth messing with.

Your 102in and 104 ex figures are counter-productive since you are obviously looking for more power with a full system and airbox mod!

 

[yamaguy]

First of all,a rule of thumb when you mess with carbs:

DO 1 CHANGE AT A TIME.

Best advice ever.

Now you enlarged the pilots fuel jets,but are struggling them by opening the mixture screws 1.5 turns!

1 thing you got to understand concerning the pilots fuel jets and mixture screws...they are related.

--->A mixture screw shouldnt be opened more than 4 turns out,and shouldnt be opened less than 2.5 turns out.

More than 4 turns out and you risk loosing a screw,and it also means that your pilot fuel jets size is too small.

Less then 2.5 turns out means that your pilot fuel jets size is too big.

Good rule of thumb. Another thing, the DJ 18 pilots may not be larger than the stock 15's, DJ numbers are'nt the same as Mikuni. It would be best to check with DJ to see approx. what size on the Mikuni scale these would be.

10mm on the floats is to be used specifically with custom needles (if your DJ inst. tells you to do that,fine).

Factory Pro recommends this when trying to clean up the big throttle slow speed bogging, it is only marginally helpful.

One more thing;

Where the hell did you find those cam figures?

Do you really expect to make power with those?

You should be aiming for at least 108 intake and 98-100 exhaust.

Anything else aint worth messing with.

Your 102in and 104 ex figures are counter-productive since you are obviously looking for more power with a full system and airbox mod!

The 102in seems a bit low, I looked on the Graves Website and it is what they recommend with the full exhaust system. What this will do is increase your cam overlap which will contribute to slightly rougher running at lower speeds but should give you good midrange torque. Stock cams @ 107-108 would probably be the best comprimise for midrange and top-end but the 104ex is a number a lot of people use now, Mr. Ivan himself included. Keep the cams at what they're at for now and tune around them.


My advice for starters

-Try enriching fuel screws so bike will idle and rev up nicely. If you have to go much more than 4-4.5 turns out you will need a larger pilot jet. Put in a Mikuni #20, it's what I'm using with the floats set to 10mm.

-needle 3rd clip

-you still need to verify your main jet, all is for naught if it is way out. It affects bottom and midrange significantly. That's why the suggestion get the bike to a dyno with a gas analyzer to see where you are at. I've been tuning for years (like Martin) and I have a hard time telling between rich and lean when you are really close. My solution was to install an o2 sensor in the exhaust and using a multimeter strapped to the tank I finally figured it out. I doubt that you will want to do this however, so a dyno is the only option if you want to get it right!

 

[yamamayzf1000r]

After reading MartinC's posts for several weeks it's obvious that he knows his sh!t. You'd better listen to his advice.
No offence to anyone else, I just have a keen sense for spotting talent and intelligence.

 

[Looneybomber]

revshed ive got a similar prob. bike idles around 1000 then 1400 when warm, i have suit on the end of my can and my idle is rough. Plus im real sluggish downlow below 3k.

 

[martinc]

You guys may want to look into this...

http://www.flo-commander.com

Get the kit for pilot air jets.

 

[Flying_98_R1]

After reading MartinC's posts for several weeks it's obvious that he knows his sh!t. You'd better listen to his advice.
No offence to anyone else, I just have a keen sense for spotting talent and intelligence.

:iamwithst martinc is da bomb....

 

[revshed]

-Try enriching fuel screws so bike will idle and rev up nicely. If you have to go much more than 4-4.5 turns out you will need a larger pilot jet. Put in a Mikuni #20, it's what I'm using with the floats set to 10mm.

Hey Yamaguy, can you fill me in on your setup (exhaust, intake, and complete jetting?)

As far as having the airscrews turned only 1.5 turns out, that is what DynoJet actually recommended in the setup instructions so I doubt that it is totally ineffective.

The reason I havn't taken it to a Dyno is because it's a couple of hours away and the only day I can make it is on a saturday which have been pretty busy for me lately. Thanks for all help guys.

 

[yamaguy]

My setup (carburetion and intake wise)

-m4 exhaust
-custom ram air
-145 mikuni mj's
-#20 pilots
-float level 10mm
-plugged main air correctors


Don't even bother using my setup as a starting point. Follow the suggestions in the earlier replies, set up some time with the dyno, you'll learn more in 2 hrs than you will in 2 years working on the bike yourself.

 

[martinc]

set up some time with the dyno, you'll learn more in 2 hrs than you will in 2 years working on the bike yourself.

Are you talking to me?

:lol :lol :lol