[nidyanazo]

If you do any mountain biking or motocrossing, you'd understand the leverage that is going into this process. Your ouside arm is pulling on the bar backwards and upwards while the inside is pushing forward and downwards, read countersteer. If you weigh the inside foot, your pushing your back tire down and away from the tire's traction plane. IF you weigh the outside of the foot, pushing down, then you are pushing the tire into the ground and perpendicular to the plane. Think of a shovel lying on the ground with the face up and stepping on the blade face. The stick handle comes up and the pivot point is forced into the ground.

This explains it exactly.

 

[rocalotopus]

Well now this is what I mean by percieved traction. I don't totally believe that what you are describing increases traction at all. However, if you do load up the inside peg and do end up losing traction, I can see the loss of traction being far more dramatic than if you were to load up the outside peg. The attachment point of your body doesn't have any real effect as far as i'm concerned. The overall position of your body decides where the weight is applied with respect to the motorcycle. For instance, take a car engine. If you were to keep the engine in the exact same spot but move it's mounting points forward, you didn't change the weight distribution at all (aside from the weight of the mounts being moved of course).

1. Before you disagree with Aron tooooo much, go chase him around a racetrack. Best of luck with that.

2. I can't help but think you aren't going nearly fast enough to really understand what Payth, Aron, Roo etc are trying to tell you.

3. I nutshelled the outside peg weighting like this. Hanging off, deep in a corner, rolling on the throttle--it seems to me applying pressure to the outside peg would simply stand the bike up a smidge, thus putting more rubber on the ground. Sort of a supplement to good body position.

It makes sense to me this way. If you still disagree, fine. But see point 1!

 

[yankin&bankin]

You should be weighting the outside peg as well as the inside.

 

[bryan2002R1]

:corn

 

[SySt]

1. Before you disagree with Aron tooooo much, go chase him around a racetrack. Best of luck with that.

2. I can't help but think you aren't going nearly fast enough to really understand what Payth, Aron, Roo etc are trying to tell you.

3. I nutshelled the outside peg weighting like this. Hanging off, deep in a corner, rolling on the throttle--it seems to me applying pressure to the outside peg would simply stand the bike up a smidge, thus putting more rubber on the ground. Sort of a supplement to good body position.

It makes sense to me this way. If you still disagree, fine. But see point 1!

I disagree with people saying loading the outside peg gives more traction. Traction in this case being defined by the tire's ability to create forces along the plane parrallel to the road surface. What I am not saying is that loading up the outside peg is a bad idea, or poor form.

Point #1 for you is somewhat off topic. Lets say I took you up on that and couldn't keep up around the track at all. That is not even close to being conclusive of loading the outside peg giving more traction. I mean think about the basics, different bikes, possibly different body weights/builds, possibly different riding styles in general, oh and our tires could be different.

I think some of you guys are taking this too personal. I am not questioning your riding abilities. I am trying to understand your methodology.

 

[rocalotopus]

I disagree with people saying loading the outside peg gives more traction. Traction in this case being defined by the tire's ability to create forces along the plane parrallel to the road surface. What I am not saying is that loading up the outside peg is a bad idea, or poor form.

Point #1 for you is somewhat off topic. Lets say I took you up on that and couldn't keep up around the track at all. That is not even close to being conclusive of loading the outside peg giving more traction. I mean think about the basics, different bikes, possibly different body weights/builds, possibly different riding styles in general, oh and our tires could be different.

I think some of you guys are taking this too personal. I am not questioning your riding abilities. I am trying to understand your methodology.

1. I wasn't taking it too personally.

2. You missed a basic point. I was talking about Aron. Even if I was faster than god I would never say so.

3. Are you female? Your sheer argumentativeness smacks of my GF, who argues just to do it, sometimes in hope of being right. (that or you're Kmac's alter ego)

 

[triplestack3]

it depends on the turn and what the bike is doing

 

[Kangaroo]

it depends on the turn and what the bike is doing

Initial turn setup is the same irregardless of the banking or turn radius.

 

[triplestack3]

Initial turn setup is the same irregardless of the banking or turn radius.

the same to what degree?

 

[Kangaroo]

the same to what degree?

That you start shifting weight towards the apex of the turn. All riders are already doing what Aron says to do consciously. But when you do it consciously, the results are more dramatic until it becomes 2nd nature.

When you shift weight to the inside of the corner and start scooting your buttcheeks over, you are pushing off of the outside peg and countersteering by default. You can technically push off of the inside peg but that's more awkward and not as strong of a movement. Think of being a linebacker and responding left or right. Is it better to push off with the outside leg or the inside leg?

This locking/bracing of the outside leg to the tank also helps mid-corner/max lean as it stabilizes the rider to the bike and takes out unneeded motion that an abrupt body movement can upset the chassis and grip. At this point, many riders that start going fast tend to put too much weight on the inside leg because they didn't consciously prep the outside leg at the beginning of the corner and now the inside leg does most of the work holding up the riders weight.

When you're riding and grinding kneepucks a good sign if you have too much weight on the inside leg or leaning off too far is if you can lift the kneepuck easily or not.

 

[TORDY3002]

That you start shifting weight towards the apex of the turn. All riders are already doing what Aron says to do consciously. But when you do it consciously, the results are more dramatic until it becomes 2nd nature.

When you shift weight to the inside of the corner and start scooting your buttcheeks over, you are pushing off of the outside peg and countersteering by default. You can technically push off of the inside peg but that's more awkward and not as strong of a movement. Think of being a linebacker and responding left or right. Is it better to push off with the outside leg or the inside leg?

This locking/bracing of the outside leg to the tank also helps mid-corner/max lean as it stabilizes the rider to the bike and takes out unneeded motion that an abrupt body movement can upset the chassis and grip. At this point, many riders that start going fast tend to put too much weight on the inside leg because they didn't consciously prep the outside leg at the beginning of the corner and now the inside leg does most of the work holding up the riders weight.

When you're riding and grinding kneepucks a good sign if you have too much weight on the inside leg or leaning off too far is if you can lift the kneepuck easily or not.

See to me that makes sense! Outside peg to move your weight over, hang against the tank mid bend. Thank you, at last we're getting somewhere, ncie kangaroo!

 

[SySt]

1. I wasn't taking it too personally.

2. You missed a basic point. I was talking about Aron. Even if I was faster than god I would never say so.

3. Are you female? Your sheer argumentativeness smacks of my GF, who argues just to do it, sometimes in hope of being right. (that or you're Kmac's alter ego)

You aren't taking it too personal? You're borderline sexist name-calling.

I too was talking about Aron when referring to your point #1 iny my previous post.

Kangaroo: I agree that pushing against the outside peg and the tank is a common way to keep yourself attached to the bike. However, I strive to use better methods. Holding your weight on the inside peg seems like poor body form. I think most will find that doing so will cause more effort and therefore fatique than other methods of supporting their body.

 

[Kangaroo]

I do push on the inside peg on the corner exit while picking the bike up. Again most people do this without knowing it. Fatigue comes from many things while riding as it is a very violent physical activity.

 

[Aron213 ti]

Im not racing anybody, im too brittle right now....

Kangaroo has asked me to post this picture of me sliding the rear in a turn, Im doing about 125mph thru here, I really started pushing down on the outside peg here, I didnt crash and I didnt chop the throttle either

 

[KMac]

You aren't taking it too personal? You're borderline sexist name-calling.

I too was talking about Aron when referring to your point #1 iny my previous post.

Kangaroo: I agree that pushing against the outside peg and the tank is a common way to keep yourself attached to the bike. However, I strive to use better methods. Holding your weight on the inside peg seems like poor body form. I think most will find that doing so will cause more effort and therefore fatique than other methods of supporting their body.

Don't mind roc, he's pms'ing this week.

 

[KMac]

We all must be on to something:sneaky

crutches?

 

[KMac]

I disagree with people saying loading the outside peg gives more traction. Traction in this case being defined by the tire's ability to create forces along the plane parrallel to the road surface. What I am not saying is that loading up the outside peg is a bad idea, or poor form.

If you could somehow put your bike on a set of scales, and suspend the bike in a leaned over position, you could observe the scale when you weight either peg. When you weigh the inside peg, you will get little to no increase of the scale reading, depending on the angle the bike is leaned. When you weight the outside peg you will see a higher reading on the scale. That reading is pure downward force on the contact patch of the tire. Given the tire has a fixed coefficient of friction (for the most part, during that instant in time), a higher normal force on the contact patch means it will take a proportionately higher sliding force (sideways force) to move the tire laterally. And what is the force that resists that sliding force? Traction.

Don't get lost in forces and directions, it's torque created by the peg weighting that is creating the downward force, along with a component of the peg force itself that will add to it. Weighting the outer peg creates a torque that produces significant downward force on the tire, along with some minor sideways force; weighting the inner peg creates a torque that creates significant sideways force on the tire along with some minor downward force. The net sum total is that weighting the outside peg produces the greater downward force.

 

[streetjester]

Im not racing anybody, im too brittle right now....

Kangaroo has asked me to post this picture of me sliding the rear in a turn, Im doing about 125mph thru here, I really started pushing down on the outside peg here, I didnt crash and I didnt chop the throttle either

He did however shiit himself.

 

[Aron213 ti]

If you could somehow put your bike on a set of scales, and suspend the bike in a leaned over position, you could observe the scale when you weight either peg. When you weigh the inside peg, you will get little to no increase of the scale reading, depending on the angle the bike is leaned. When you weight the outside peg you will see a higher reading on the scale. That reading is pure downward force on the contact patch of the tire. Given the tire has a fixed coefficient of friction (for the most part, during that instant in time), a higher normal force on the contact patch means it will take a proportionately higher sliding force (sideways force) to move the tire laterally. And what is the force that resists that sliding force? Traction.

Don't get lost in forces and directions, it's torque created by the peg weighting that is creating the downward force, along with a component of the peg force itself that will add to it. Weighting the outer peg creates a torque that produces significant downward force on the tire, along with some minor sideways force; weighting the inner peg creates a torque that creates significant sideways force on the tire along with some minor downward force. The net sum total is that weighting the outside peg produces the greater downward force.

this is why I dont have to think when I ride, if this shit wasnt second nature to me, I would be screwed:crash

 

[kalaniocc]

If you could somehow put your bike on a set of scales, and suspend the bike in a leaned over position, you could observe the scale when you weight either peg. When you weigh the inside peg, you will get little to no increase of the scale reading, depending on the angle the bike is leaned. When you weight the outside peg you will see a higher reading on the scale. That reading is pure downward force on the contact patch of the tire. Given the tire has a fixed coefficient of friction (for the most part, during that instant in time), a higher normal force on the contact patch means it will take a proportionately higher sliding force (sideways force) to move the tire laterally. And what is the force that resists that sliding force? Traction.

Don't get lost in forces and directions, it's torque created by the peg weighting that is creating the downward force, along with a component of the peg force itself that will add to it. Weighting the outer peg creates a torque that produces significant downward force on the tire, along with some minor sideways force; weighting the inner peg creates a torque that creates significant sideways force on the tire along with some minor downward force. The net sum total is that weighting the outside peg produces the greater downward force.

:iamwithst
there really isnt a better explanation in terms of the physical forces at work as to why its more beneficial to weight the outside peg.