[421R1]

here's an interview with McCoy...

As far as traction concerns go, don't take my words for it, take Gary McCoy's (courtesy RoadRacing World):

"Any place I’m looking for extra grip or drive I weight the outside footpeg. Sometimes it’s when I get on the gas mid-corner, when the bike starts to wheelspin and I need a bit of extra grip. Other times I’ll weight the ‘peg a little later in the corner when I’m looking for drive coming on to a long straight. Generally I don’t get so sideways through corners that lead on to long straights because I want to get some extra drive."

The inside footpeg also comes in for a fair amount of abuse from McCoy (like most GP racers, he gets so physical with his feet that it takes just a few races to wear out the soles of his boots). "If I’m running wide and it’s some place where I don’t want to use the throttle to get the bike steered, I’ll weight the inside ‘peg to get the rear to slide and tighten the line. Or sometimes when the bike gets so sideways, to where it’s almost on the full-lock against the lock stops, I weight the inside peg to help it spin a little more, which stops it gripping and highsiding me."

 

[Balistic]

here's an interview with McCoy...

As far as traction concerns go, don't take my words for it, take Gary McCoy's (courtesy RoadRacing World):

"Any place I’m looking for extra grip or drive I weight the outside footpeg. Sometimes it’s when I get on the gas mid-corner, when the bike starts to wheelspin and I need a bit of extra grip. Other times I’ll weight the ‘peg a little later in the corner when I’m looking for drive coming on to a long straight. Generally I don’t get so sideways through corners that lead on to long straights because I want to get some extra drive."

The inside footpeg also comes in for a fair amount of abuse from McCoy (like most GP racers, he gets so physical with his feet that it takes just a few races to wear out the soles of his boots). "If I’m running wide and it’s some place where I don’t want to use the throttle to get the bike steered, I’ll weight the inside ‘peg to get the rear to slide and tighten the line. Or sometimes when the
bike gets so sideways, to where it’s almost on the full-lock against the lock stops, I weight the inside peg to help it spin a little more, which stops it gripping and highsiding me."

I didn't see this article but it's not hard for me to believe McCoy said it and does it. But I will debate to the end the true effects peg weighting has on the bike. Talent doesn't always translate to the ability to observe or explain. McCoy is the undisputed master of sliding, that ability may be hewn out of talent and not understanding.
Will

 

[421R1]

I see your point... I have heard other GP level riders explain it the same way. It seems that bikes are always finding ways to bend the laws of physics

 

[r1menace]

here's an interview with McCoy...

As far as traction concerns go, don't take my words for it, take Gary McCoy's (courtesy RoadRacing World):

"Any place I’m looking for extra grip or drive I weight the outside footpeg. Sometimes it’s when I get on the gas mid-corner, when the bike starts to wheelspin and I need a bit of extra grip. Other times I’ll weight the ‘peg a little later in the corner when I’m looking for drive coming on to a long straight. Generally I don’t get so sideways through corners that lead on to long straights because I want to get some extra drive."

The inside footpeg also comes in for a fair amount of abuse from McCoy (like most GP racers, he gets so physical with his feet that it takes just a few races to wear out the soles of his boots). "If I’m running wide and it’s some place where I don’t want to use the throttle to get the bike steered, I’ll weight the inside ‘peg to get the rear to slide and tighten the line. Or sometimes when the bike gets so sideways, to where it’s almost on the full-lock against the lock stops, I weight the inside peg to help it spin a little more, which stops it gripping and highsiding me."

And that M'Lud, is the case for the prosecution. The bench rests.

 

[Guest]

ok i dont want to get into another pissing match, but as a physicist every thing mcCoy says is true and can be explained.

i have to say that r1 menace and McCoy are correct on this one.

I know the differences between CS and BS and this is when the pegs are concidered level and the thing that actually makes you turn is the different radius's of the tires. think of rolling a cup on the table, it turns because one side is larger then the other so a complete rotation causes the larger side to have to travle more.

what we are talking about here has nothing todo with BS and CS, it has to do with centering your weight at different points abouve or below the rear tire and which direction you are applying force. outside peg force is above and down on the tire, inside peg force is down and out. mind you this all goes back to being negledgable when near stright up, but at full lean these forces are quite different and result in gaining more or sheading more rear end traction.

bottom line weighting the outside peg while leaned over(by the laws of physics) gives you more traction, and the inside peg will give you less traction, and actually help you to slide the rear tire out.

 

[Balistic]

ok i dont want to get into another pissing match, but as a physicist every thing mcCoy says is true and can be explained.

i have to say that r1 menace and McCoy are correct on this one.

I know the differences between CS and BS and this is when the pegs are concidered level and the thing that actually makes you turn is the different radius's of the tires. think of rolling a cup on the table, it turns because one side is larger then the other so a complete rotation causes the larger side to have to travle more.

what we are talking about here has nothing todo with BS and CS, it has to do with centering your weight at different points abouve or below the rear tire and which direction you are applying force. outside peg force is above and down on the tire, inside peg force is down and out. mind you this all goes back to being negledgable when near stright up, but at full lean these forces are quite different and result in gaining more or sheading more rear end traction.


bottom line weighting the outside peg while leaned over(by the laws of physics) gives you more traction, and the inside peg will give you less traction, and actually help you to slide the rear tire out.

So if you haven't moved your body The cg hasn't moved the bike will feel no difference in which peg the weight is on. However IMHO what the rider may be noticing when moving your body changing which peg your weight is makes it easier to move around on the bike, and more comfortable.

If the thing that makes the bike turn is the different radius of the tires then how would you explain say a Harley with a 21 front and 16 rear? Or how about a road bicycle with the same tire front and rear. Your may want to rethink that one a little.
Will

 

[tbc3-r1]

I have so much to learn....

 

[Guest]

So if you haven't moved your body The cg hasn't moved the bike will feel no difference in which peg the weight is on. However IMHO what the rider may be noticing when moving your body changing which peg your weight is makes it easier to move around on the bike, and more comfortable.

If the thing that makes the bike turn is the different radius of the tires then how would you explain say a Harley with a 21 front and 16 rear? Or how about a road bicycle with the same tire front and rear. Your may want to rethink that one a little.
Will

i was talking about inner center radius of a specific tire and the outer radius of that same tire. front to back had nothing to do with it. That why going to a 180 rear gives you better turn in, and a 208gp front is susptable to tank slapping. sorry if it came across as the front and rear difference, i meant the diference in inner to outer radius of each the individual front and rear tires.

as for back to the peg weighting sistuation, you are just wrong, ill have to go draw up some diagrams.

you CG does change because you are applying contact and therefore a portion of your force in the form of M*g at individual points. if you still want to debate it ill draw something up for you. its not simple physics were you can assume the body is one object and go from there. the body moves and comformes, also had muscles and internal forces that play a part into wieghting the pegs. think how a large force on the inside peg while leaned over being lower to the ground will cause an outward force. and the outside peg will cause a torque upward alond with a force downward and out. you also need to take into concideration the tires as a piviot point. i belive the problem is much more complicated then you originally thought and physically i am correct.

i do aploigize though about the misinterpretation about the inner and outer radius, i should have explained it more clearly. (and if you want to go and talk about road bikes and such, BS plays a part in that as well that is much more noticable)

the whole BS / CS argument is really pointless to say that it is entirely one or the other because it is a combination of lots of forces, namly on a motorcycle the centripital momentum causes CS to be the "only factor" because your BS force is far to great to make any noticable difference once you are moveing at any real speed, but as the wheels slow down and eventually stop the equations goes completly the other way and BS takes over.

So please dont try to over simplify the sistuation, but i do appriciate your viewpoint and posts

casey

 

[BWS]

I'll oversimplify it.When the rr tyre is struggling for traction,you know slippin and sliding,what you do on the pegs has a marked effect on the rr steer of a bike.The rr goes in the opposite direction to which peg you jump on.Jump inside peg ass goes out.Stand on outside peg the rr stays in line tighter.And while the back of the bike is painting nice long ******* you'd better be knowin what CS is........"and the beat goes on"

 

[Guest]

I'll oversimplify it.When the rr tyre is struggling for traction,you know slippin and sliding,what you do on the pegs has a marked effect on the rr steer of a bike.The rr goes in the opposite direction to which peg you jump on.Jump inside peg ass goes out.Stand on outside peg the rr stays in line tighter.And while the back of the bike is painting nice long ******* you'd better be knowin what CS is........"and the beat goes on"

nice simplification :rock

 

[Balistic]

i was talking about inner center radius of a specific tire and the outer radius of that same tire. front to back had nothing to do with it. That why going to a 180 rear gives you better turn in, and a 208gp front is susptable to tank slapping. sorry if it came across as the front and rear difference, i meant the diference in inner to outer radius of each the individual front and rear tires.

I still think you are off on this. I used to race Ninja 250 with 120/16 front and 130/16 rear. It was by far the best turning motorcycle i have riden. I think the reason a bike turns is wheel base, not the shape of the tire or the radius difference. You can turn a drag bike and the tire is effectivly square. I used a 5.5" wheel on my ZX9 because I like the way it feels in the turn compaired to the 6.0". The closer the front and rear are in size the better the bike will corner, but the small tires won't handle the power so we have to deal with bikes that noise in on the small tire to get them off the turn.
QUOTE]Originally posted by kc1717

as for back to the peg weighting sistuation, you are just wrong, ill have to go draw up some diagrams.

you CG does change because you are applying contact and therefore a portion of your force in the form of M*g at individual points. if you still want to debate it ill draw something up for you. its not simple physics were you can assume the body is one object and go from there. the body moves and comformes, also had muscles and internal forces that play a part into wieghting the pegs. think how a large force on the inside peg while leaned over being lower to the ground will cause an outward force. and the outside peg will cause a torque upward alond with a force downward and out. you also need to take into concideration the tires as a piviot point. i belive the problem is much more complicated then you originally thought and physically i am correct.
casey [/QUOTE]
I do understand what you are saying about where the force is applied, however there is one problem with this. A very basic one indeed.
Newton,I. Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it.
No outside point of force, no change in CG. To my understanding the rider isn't an outside force but part of the same closed system.

i do aploigize though about the misinterpretation about the inner and outer radius, i should have explained it more clearly. (and if you want to go and talk about road bikes and such, BS plays a part in that as well that is much more noticable)

the whole BS / CS argument is really pointless to say that it is entirely one or the other because it is a combination of lots of forces, namly on a motorcycle the centripital momentum causes CS to be the "only factor" because your BS force is far to great to make any noticable difference once you are moveing at any real speed, but as the wheels slow down and eventually stop the equations goes completly the other way and BS takes over.

So please dont try to over simplify the sistuation, but i do appriciate your viewpoint and posts

casey

I realy don't want to get into BS here, there is a fine thread for that with like minded Math men that have already explained this far in excess of your explanation.
Will

 

[Balistic]

I'll oversimplify it.When the rr tyre is struggling for traction,you know slippin and sliding,what you do on the pegs has a marked effect on the rr steer of a bike.The rr goes in the opposite direction to which peg you jump on.Jump inside peg ass goes out.Stand on outside peg the rr stays in line tighter.And while the back of the bike is painting nice long ******* you'd better be knowin what CS is........"and the beat goes on"

And while your monkying around with where you put your weight what are you doing with the throttle?:dunno I would be stable on the bike and using the throttle solely to control the rear and a distant memory as a disapeared in a few turns, while you were wondering how did he do that.
Will

 

[BWS]

Its about having fun......safely,so as long as you're meeting that criteria........more power to ya!Gotta say though dude,I live ON the BRP and its right at 5500 turns between my estate and Deals Gap so be careful.

 

[r1menace]

And while your monkying around with where you put your weight what are you doing with the throttle?:dunno I would be stable on the bike and using the throttle solely to control the rear and a distant memory as a disapeared in a few turns, while you were wondering how did he do that.
Will

Your modesty becomes you. What size helmet do you use?

 

[BWS]

It only gets better Balistic........you simply must send me your email.Wifey and I are,as we speak,making arrangments for a house near Nurburgring,........I'm thinkin 6 months should do it?maybe you can make it over?

 

[Balistic]

Your modesty becomes you. What size helmet do you use?

HI R1menace
Normally a 57 will do. I was just a little irritated, didn't mean to offend you.
Will

 

[Balistic]

It only gets better Balistic........you simply must send me your email.Wifey and I are,as we speak,making arrangments for a house near Nurburgring,........I'm thinkin 6 months should do it?maybe you can make it over?

I have heard that is a very interesting ride, what with all the RVs and cars, multiple entrances and no particular speed limit.
Your not likely to see me there. If I went across the pound it would be for a super moto school.
Will

 

[Eyespy]

The "physicist's" physics are wrong. The motorcycle is not turning as a function of differing center vs offset radii.

 

[Guest]

then what is it because that is correct.

 

[scud]

Absolutely McCoy

I agree- There is no one on the planet that can get sideways like McCoy- to see him do what he does is like watching outlaw sprint cars in the dirt- the guy defies the laws of ****king physics.

I'll admit, the most amazing thing I ever saw on two wheels was two seasons back in MotoGP when Rossi managed not to high side (but actually had both wheels come off the ground in the process AND KEPT IT UP!!!) ***NOTE: This is when 'Greed' channel still paid nominal attention to bikes***

However aside from Rossi's rabbit-out-of-a-hat move, McCoy is the king of the impossible- I have never seen anyone get a machine that sideways, it is inspirational