As the title states. Ive got an opportunity to purchase a 2016 R1 w/ less than 3K miles for a great price. Ive been reading on the forum and hearing a lot about pre 10K miles engine failure on these models. I know the 2015's had recall, and there were some adjustments on the 2016, but still some had problems. How widespread are these issues? I really want the bike, but can't afford to throw money into this thing immediately. Any help or information would be greatly appreciated.
Jstilly85
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I bought my 2015 used with around 3800 miles on it... Never tracked it mainly commuted and the occasional ride through the mountains... at around 9000 miles I spun a bearing and it cost me another $4500 for the repair (I posted about it here).
Buuuuut, I am just one dude of a few. To add to it, I now have around 12000 on the bike and she has been just fine.
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Buuuuut, I am just one dude of a few. To add to it, I now have around 12000 on the bike and she has been just fine.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yea Stig, I read some of your posts. Yours was really the one I was referring to. Wonder how much a Yamaha 2-year warranty would cost on a used bike. Unless I can get one, I will probably pass. This scares the hell out of me. It doesn't seem like there are a ton of cases, but i'm not even sure how many people are riding around on 15+ R1's in the US.
I've always been curious about how many actually fail?? I've seen a couple of threads on here saying there is a design flaw in the crank. and keep seeing EDR's page full of blown r1 engines. and also seen an r1 catch fire at the track... kind of scares me now that I bought an 18 and flashed it... lets just buckle down and see how it goes... crazy to see how many r1's you see at the track nowadays just walk around the pits and ask what year and how long they have had the bikes I usually see about 8-10k on most of them and all owners say they have been great bikes so far.
EDR is a shop in oregon that does great work on the rest of the bike but super questionable work on motors and they convince their clients to drink the koolaid and believe that its normal for your engine to blow up often and you NEED to rebuild it every year. they had a couple r1's in there with crank failures they blame on yamaha but when i saw another race team with a blown crank they admitted they used the wrong size bearing and it was the only one that blew so who knows. they also say the rods are garbage because they overlooked balancing an engine and blew the rod almost right after it was built. its easier to put it on Facebook that yamaha is defective and get people talking about believing it then it is to admit you messed up.
I've got over 12k on my 15 r1 and it had the trans recall performed early on. no problems and no worries in my mind. I've tracked it, raced it and still street ride it. its still a monster.
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I bought a new 2015 from a dealership. Rode it for a few thousand miles, then raced it for two years in a local series in two classes. So a total of about 30 races.
So at the end of the last season, I had the engine taken apart to inspect it because it was down on power at the last race of 2018.
We found:
Wear on crank journals.
Wear on wrist pins.
Rods were out of spec with the large end of the rods slightly out of round. Very small measurements of thousands of an inch, but enough to hammer the wrist pins.
Bottom of pistons stretched where wrist pin goes through.
Bottom line, my 2015 engine was worn out. And I changed oil/filter every race, always on top of the maintenance.
Others have guessed that the crank problems reported may be a combination of over pressurizing cylinders, or timing that is too advanced, or local tracks that have a very long straight which is where some of the 2015 crank breakage issues seem to show up. But it is clear that the oil passage design is an issue, but here in colorado the elevation is so high we never saw one break.
Note that in 2016 they added a thrust bearing the the crank to eliminate side-to-side slop and that helped, but in 2017 they changed the cases, crank, and even the valve springs now have two springs per valve (2017 on).
When I learned that my 2015 engine was done I said "no more silver motors for me" - meaning, no more 2015-2016 engines for me and I sold my backup bike.
I then purchased a salvaged 2017 engine with 500 miles, and I sent it to Gary Dean (crew chief for Kyle Wyman, former crew chief for Josh Herrin when he was on an R1). He is an expert R1 engine builder. He inspected it, said the engine was basically new, and we built it. Head work, and lots of other work. That was going to be my main bike for this year until I had an opportunity to get Bobby Fong's R1 from the Hudson MotoAmerica team. I bought that bike, pictured below, and I rebuilt the entire bike with new electronics and many other upgrades.
Through this experience, I have spoken with motoamerica team managers, and I have heard the following quotes that are interesting.
"all we have ever run in motoamerica is silver motors, and we have never had one go" - Westby Team
"we have never seen a silver R1 engine blow up in MotoAmerica" - westby team.
"titanium con rods are only good for about 3000 racing miles and then they are done" - literally 3 teams and a tuner all told me the same thing, which I witnessed with my engine teardown. The rods are fine for street use, but 3000+ miles of racing and they are done.
The 2020-2021 R1 will be all new, and will be revealed in July at the Suzuka 8 hour. It has been seen in the wild. Hopefully some of the crank issues will be resolved in the new design, as the motor will be all new.
Hope that helps.
![Image]()
So at the end of the last season, I had the engine taken apart to inspect it because it was down on power at the last race of 2018.
We found:
Wear on crank journals.
Wear on wrist pins.
Rods were out of spec with the large end of the rods slightly out of round. Very small measurements of thousands of an inch, but enough to hammer the wrist pins.
Bottom of pistons stretched where wrist pin goes through.
Bottom line, my 2015 engine was worn out. And I changed oil/filter every race, always on top of the maintenance.
Others have guessed that the crank problems reported may be a combination of over pressurizing cylinders, or timing that is too advanced, or local tracks that have a very long straight which is where some of the 2015 crank breakage issues seem to show up. But it is clear that the oil passage design is an issue, but here in colorado the elevation is so high we never saw one break.
Note that in 2016 they added a thrust bearing the the crank to eliminate side-to-side slop and that helped, but in 2017 they changed the cases, crank, and even the valve springs now have two springs per valve (2017 on).
When I learned that my 2015 engine was done I said "no more silver motors for me" - meaning, no more 2015-2016 engines for me and I sold my backup bike.
I then purchased a salvaged 2017 engine with 500 miles, and I sent it to Gary Dean (crew chief for Kyle Wyman, former crew chief for Josh Herrin when he was on an R1). He is an expert R1 engine builder. He inspected it, said the engine was basically new, and we built it. Head work, and lots of other work. That was going to be my main bike for this year until I had an opportunity to get Bobby Fong's R1 from the Hudson MotoAmerica team. I bought that bike, pictured below, and I rebuilt the entire bike with new electronics and many other upgrades.
Through this experience, I have spoken with motoamerica team managers, and I have heard the following quotes that are interesting.
"all we have ever run in motoamerica is silver motors, and we have never had one go" - Westby Team
"we have never seen a silver R1 engine blow up in MotoAmerica" - westby team.
"titanium con rods are only good for about 3000 racing miles and then they are done" - literally 3 teams and a tuner all told me the same thing, which I witnessed with my engine teardown. The rods are fine for street use, but 3000+ miles of racing and they are done.
The 2020-2021 R1 will be all new, and will be revealed in July at the Suzuka 8 hour. It has been seen in the wild. Hopefully some of the crank issues will be resolved in the new design, as the motor will be all new.
Hope that helps.
Titanium parts all have a fatigue life. They will go so long then failure will strike so they best in motors that see refreshes at regular intervals if you are continuously racing. These rods are plenty overbuilt for hard street riding. The life is extended by cryo-treating them and there is several race teams that will refresh the motor while the rods are still dimensionally in spec and will send them in for cryo-treatmeant again, it's kinda like a reset button on the fatigue cycle and they will throw them back in season after season.
17 went to the dual spring but the YEC springs are still single springs and Even for the 17 they replace the dual setup with the single spring YEC set. The crankcase also is an updated part number but it's just because of the black almost all the parts swap between 15 and 16 and 17. Cylinder head was updated for 17 but it's because they changed the shape of the valve cover. The 15 and 16 you can't get the valve cover out without taking off the radiator and pushing the cover through the front. 17 the fixed this but all the valves, ports, Chambers, all the same.
17 went to the dual spring but the YEC springs are still single springs and Even for the 17 they replace the dual setup with the single spring YEC set. The crankcase also is an updated part number but it's just because of the black almost all the parts swap between 15 and 16 and 17. Cylinder head was updated for 17 but it's because they changed the shape of the valve cover. The 15 and 16 you can't get the valve cover out without taking off the radiator and pushing the cover through the front. 17 the fixed this but all the valves, ports, Chambers, all the same.
I bought my first 15' R1 in April of 2015. It spun a bearing at 3800 miles. It was under warranty so it didn't cost me anything, just 7 months of riding time. Got 17,000 miles on it without a problem until it was totaled(Shop Mechanic's fault). I bought another 15' R1 April 2018 from a dealer in Washington state. It was a Yamaha factory demo bike with 1200 miles on it. I had it shipped to me and received it in the end of May. It has 9000 miles on it now, never been to the track but ride it almost daily(weather permitting) and haven't had any issues mechanically. Only had a coolant leak from an O-ring behind the headers.
Tracks can be hard to find and seasonal so with only one track you may only see ten days of riding and that part does suck. If your A guy who is just out relaxed riding and only gets on it a bit here n there then there probably isn't alot of appeal in the track but if you do enjoy pushing it and hitting mountain twisties then you will probably get more from the track and most likely going there will ruin the road for you. Either way they all usually have a street class where you can tape up your mirrors and lights and go try it out and it is definitely something worth checking out.
I have a 15 and had valve train issues at about 8ks. Granted it has had a good number of miles on the track. Original head had issues with the valves stretching and coming out of spec completely in one track day. Ended up doing a frankenstein using a 15 bottom end and 17 head (silver bottom/black head). The 15 cams must be used with the 17 head though, there is a difference. Took a long time to figure that one out.
Ask to try to start the bike when it is stone cold. Make sure the owner hasn't started it before you came. If it has difficulty starting, it could be the valves going out .
So how is he supposed to tell the difference between normal maintenence and a pending valve failure?
^ Indeed
May not even matter. The seller of the bike i'm trying to purchase has been flaky at best. Its been over 6 weeks now discussing this. First he had to get the title changed from previous state to current, bike inspection, now waiting on title to arrive so we can meet, agree, then go pay off remaining lien.
I'm not sure what the deal is with used bikes right now. I have NEVER had issue finding a good deal from a reputable seller in the past. Its been a nightmare this time around. Been searching for 2 months, keeping options open for everything from R1, R6, MT10, ZX-10R and beyond. Sellers are either WAYYYY overpriced, don't respond to texts, have questionable ethics...etc.
I went and looked at an 07' R1 the other day. Only had 7K miles and the guy was whiling to sell for $5,200. While running my hand across the front fairing I noticed what felt like dry spray. Upon further inspection, the whole damn bike had been repainted. Frustrating
Refuse to buy from a dealer tho...
May not even matter. The seller of the bike i'm trying to purchase has been flaky at best. Its been over 6 weeks now discussing this. First he had to get the title changed from previous state to current, bike inspection, now waiting on title to arrive so we can meet, agree, then go pay off remaining lien.
I'm not sure what the deal is with used bikes right now. I have NEVER had issue finding a good deal from a reputable seller in the past. Its been a nightmare this time around. Been searching for 2 months, keeping options open for everything from R1, R6, MT10, ZX-10R and beyond. Sellers are either WAYYYY overpriced, don't respond to texts, have questionable ethics...etc.
I went and looked at an 07' R1 the other day. Only had 7K miles and the guy was whiling to sell for $5,200. While running my hand across the front fairing I noticed what felt like dry spray. Upon further inspection, the whole damn bike had been repainted. Frustrating
Refuse to buy from a dealer tho...
Let me tell you what’s happening with your sluggish starts. I had weaker and weaker starts and eventually this spring the bike would crank over but the dash was flashing on off more than normal so I bit the bullet and installed a Shorai with almost double the CCA. 210 vs the OEM 130. Shorai LFX14L2-BS12
The bike flashes up in less than one second stone cold and the dash doesn’t even flicker in the slightest.
My personal view is that this oem lightweight lead acid battery is simply too wimpy for this application. It struggled from day one and I just lived with it for three seasons. Battery tending and boosting etc. Problem solved with the Lithium battery. Try that before you jump to something real expensive for sluggish starting.
I think the dash and computer need a high voltage to operate the injection or ignition correctly and the bike will crank over all day with no fire!
The bike flashes up in less than one second stone cold and the dash doesn’t even flicker in the slightest.
My personal view is that this oem lightweight lead acid battery is simply too wimpy for this application. It struggled from day one and I just lived with it for three seasons. Battery tending and boosting etc. Problem solved with the Lithium battery. Try that before you jump to something real expensive for sluggish starting.
I think the dash and computer need a high voltage to operate the injection or ignition correctly and the bike will crank over all day with no fire!
I think the phenomenon you're inquiring about is a lot more prevalent than I would ever like to think it could be. I'm not trying to discount anyone else's take on this, but I know what I've been told and have to also share this with you.
I've been racing my 2015 R1 in the AFM out here in CA on a half-season basis for two years. Luckily, I haven't had to deal with this mechanical failure yet. However, I know a certain fellow I race with (now on a Kawi ZX10R) had the '15 motor eat itself for that same reason. Then after purchasing another '15 motor, the same thing happened again. Really bad luck I guess as he is quite an capable rider/racer. A second individual I know had this issue take place within the warranty period and it was handled by Yamaha after some back and forth. Said individual has since sold his R1. My mechanic is advising me to keep eyes out for '17+ motors that had a slight part update. I am still running my '15 "silver motor", as JohnnyMac says, and am still more than happy with its performance. So I think there is definitely a risk factor to consider out there.
I've been racing my 2015 R1 in the AFM out here in CA on a half-season basis for two years. Luckily, I haven't had to deal with this mechanical failure yet. However, I know a certain fellow I race with (now on a Kawi ZX10R) had the '15 motor eat itself for that same reason. Then after purchasing another '15 motor, the same thing happened again. Really bad luck I guess as he is quite an capable rider/racer. A second individual I know had this issue take place within the warranty period and it was handled by Yamaha after some back and forth. Said individual has since sold his R1. My mechanic is advising me to keep eyes out for '17+ motors that had a slight part update. I am still running my '15 "silver motor", as JohnnyMac says, and am still more than happy with its performance. So I think there is definitely a risk factor to consider out there.
I was at my local dealer a while ago (my buddy works the parts dept) and while we where chatting a delivery of late-model R1 intake valves came in. I had to do a double-take when I saw the labels.
"Made in India."
Wonder if the quality can be called into question here...what's the percentage of Japanese MC parts fabricated there? :uhh:
"Made in India."
Wonder if the quality can be called into question here...what's the percentage of Japanese MC parts fabricated there? :uhh:
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